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Thread: Who sucks?

  1. #271
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    That Martoon! Gold-medal hater!
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  2. #272
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Re: Thoreau. I'm sorry, camping a mile and a half from civilization (on land owned by Emerson, btw) does not self-reliance make. And it's easy to protest taxation and spend the night in jail when you have a rich aunt who can just pay them for you.

    I actually like his spunk. He's just overhyped and idealized, IMO. Like most literary figures and artists. I think we just need to be careful not to turn them into gods. Emerson is assailable, I just have a personal affection for him that goes beyond the literature.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #273
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Re: Thoreau. I'm sorry, camping a mile and a half from civilization (on land owned by Emerson, btw) does not self-reliance make. And it's easy to protest taxation and spend the night in jail when you have a rich aunt who can just pay them for you.
    I like Thoreau more than Emerson because of the ideas and the literary style. I try not to lionize or criticize artists based on their lifestyles (it makes for interesting ways to appreciate their work, but it's ultimately tertiary, at best). That's why I never understood the Hunter S. Thompson love from the college set. I know the guy did a massive amount of drugs, but I doubt they have read anything besides Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (and possibly The Kentucky Derby Is Depraved and Decadent, which I really enjoyed). They like the maniac persona.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #274
    perdu fleur par bologne Martoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Gosh Matoon is the best hater!
    Ummm... thanks, I think. Not really a title I want. I didn't get involved in this thread for a long time, because I didn't feel that I'm that invested as a hater (I excel in apathy), and I saw the cost/benefit analysis of ranting on things that don't happen to appeal to me, but have no practical bearing on my life, as having a negative-sum result. It comes at the cost of offending (sometimes even hurting) people who happen to like some of these things, often to the point of being quite personally invested. And I can't really come up with a benefit.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I really hate it when people do this. You all suck. Big time. <-- (Please note the winking smiley, indicating that this is said in jest. Very affectionate jest, in fact. I love you guys. See? No smiley there. I'm serious.)

    But I thought I'd play along and give it a shot, and I'm a little surprised at what came out.

    The best and tightly phrased justifications for his hate of anyone in this thread.
    That I have to disagree with. There have been several posts in this thread that have much more eloquently made their point than mine did. And in any case, they're all trumped by Ivy's Fisticuffs of Inescapable Doom. Which in turn shrinks into the vanishing point next to the galaxy-consuming, white-hot, mind-rending cries of rage of a myriad hellspawns that is lulah's loathing of Ms. Field.

    I'm in awe at how poorly I hate in comparison and here I thought I was so adept.
    Also inaccurate. You are a class A hater. I mean that.

    I am really, really into period pieces
    Lol. Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. Possibly informed by every avatar you've ever had.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    How about a three-way sing-a-long of it by Sally Field, Michelle Pfeiffer and Sally Struthers.
    Wow. Just... wow. Okay, that would push me over the edge. Both Sallys, and the Pfeiffer? I must purge this from my mind. And I blame you if I fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Emerson is assailable, I just have a personal affection for him that goes beyond the literature.
    Ivy and Emerson, sittin' in a tree...
    I'm not a procrastinator. I'm a long-term planner.

  5. #275
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I like Thoreau more than Emerson because of the ideas and the literary style. I try not to lionize or criticize artists based on their lifestyles (it makes for interesting ways to appreciate their work, but it's ultimately tertiary, at best). That's why I never understood the Hunter S. Thompson love from the college set. I know the guy did a massive amount of drugs, but I doubt they have read anything besides Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (and possibly The Kentucky Derby Is Depraved and Decadent, which I really enjoyed). They like the maniac persona.
    IMO you can't divorce the author from the work. It's not the only or even always the most important consideration, but the ideas didn't just appear in a vacuum.

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  6. #276
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    IMO you can't divorce the author from the work. It's not the only or even always the most important consideration, but the ideas didn't just appear in a vacuum.

    Sign me,
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    I try to focus on the work as much as possible. Especially with music. There are plenty of tools who have made great music, and plenty of nice people who should be silenced forever. Also, the fanbase can be very annoying for artists with some talent (Radiohead, Chuck Palahniuk, Tim Burton, etc). Acknowledge the themes and subtexts, but don't make critical decisions based on perceptions of the artist.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #277
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    That said, they ALL have personal foibles and you're correct that it doesn't make sense to demonize them based on those, or elevate them based on their awesome personalities. Still, their lives can be extremely interesting and some of them actually did seem to be larger-than-life.

    Hemingway, IMO, is an interesting study in this. Some of his personal details should make him seem like a douche, but the totality of them are so over-the-top that it just adds to a fucking rock star devil-may-care asshole you can't help but adore. (Or I can't, anyway.) Wouldn't have dated or married him if you paid me, but good Lord he was a beautiful jackass.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #278
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That said, they ALL have personal foibles and you're correct that it doesn't make sense to demonize them based on those, or elevate them based on their awesome personalities. Still, their lives can be extremely interesting and some of them actually did seem to be larger-than-life.

    Hemingway, IMO, is an interesting study in this. Some of his personal details should make him seem like a douche, but the totality of them are so over-the-top that it just adds to a fucking rock star devil-may-care asshole you can't help but adore. (Or I can't, anyway.) Wouldn't have dated or married him if you paid me, but good Lord he was a beautiful jackass.
    Good writer, awesomely interesting life. The two are distinct (not totally separate, but still distinct) in my mind.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #279
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I try to focus on the work as much as possible. Especially with music. There are plenty of tools who have made great music, and plenty of nice people who should be silenced forever. Also, the fanbase can be very annoying for artists with some talent (Radiohead, Chuck Palahniuk, Tim Burton, etc). Acknowledge the themes and subtexts, but don't make critical decisions based on perceptions of the artist.
    I can ride with this, to a degree, but isn't a work always part of a larger context? Not just the author's life and personality. I find Mary Shelley's life to be fascinating but I can't stand her as an author, for the most part, but at the same time she is an "important" author because of where/when/why she wrote and who she affected, if not a particularly good one IMO.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #280
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Good writer, awesomely interesting life. The two are distinct (not totally separate, but still distinct) in my mind.
    Sounds good. I like to think we can consider literature and art using different frameworks for different purposes. If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying you prefer not to evaluate the quality of the work in light of the author's details, and I definitely agree with that. Sometimes the author's details or the context of the work within a culture or canon make work that isn't otherwise all that interesting, worth reading. To me. But it doesn't make it good. See: Paradise Lost.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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