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  1. #171
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So it sounds like a confirmation of the S and N demographic I stated with Wars vs Trek.

    I say Bond because S and N types both like it, but I think N types can become more loyal to it. There are a lot of twists and turns in it that S types might not care as much for. Puns also.
    For me, it is. I can't speak for other N and S types. It does seem that a lot of intuitives also love Star Wars, but I don't know the statistics.

    Star Trek, despite being a very mainstream franchise, has always seemed more "niche."

  2. #172
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    * - Also, these people should watch DS9 which has its fair share of epic space battles and multiple interweaving hero's journey arcs.
    Babylon 5, from which DS9 was directly plagiarized, is a better series, imo, and explored philosophical issues well.

    The original Star Trek series was groundbreaking. Diverse crew, complex issues discussed, etc. I disliked the PC direction the show went in TNG....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
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  3. #173
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post

    Star Trek, despite being a very mainstream franchise, has always seemed more "niche."
    I did not know this. I only know I love Trek and never much cared for Wars.
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  4. #174
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post

    The original Star Trek series was groundbreaking. Diverse crew, complex issues discussed, etc. I disliked the PC direction the show went in TNG....
    Boo Hiss. I loved TNG.
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com

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  5. #175
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Babylon 5, from which DS9 was directly plagiarized, is a better series, imo, and explored philosophical issues well.

    The original Star Trek series was groundbreaking. Diverse crew, complex issues discussed, etc. I disliked the PC direction the show went in TNG....
    Kind of related to your observation on age and SW fans. (i.e. younger fans tend to prefer prequels):

    People who grew up with the Original Series tend to prefer that one.

    I grew up on TNG. Picard was my TV dad. I have a soft spot in my heart for TNG. That said, looking back objectively, it was far from perfect. The early seasons felt like a rehash. However, it really came into its own in season 3 and was nearly flawless through season 5. Picard grew as a character after they "humanized" him when he was assimilated by the Borg. Cracks began to show in season 6. I've never related more to characters than I have to Data, Worf, and to a lesser extent Odo from DS9 and Seven from Voyager. EDIT: and how could I forget Spock. I identify with him.

    I have always viewed TNG as an improvement on TOS. The main weakness was the lack of conflict of tension between characters, but then that forced the writers to be more creative and look for conflict and tension on a grander scale. It's not too hard to believe though, because on a starship, you'd need everyone to put their differences aside and work as a team.

    DS9 may be a ripoff of Babylon 5, but it's possibly the greatest Trek show ever. They introduced more complexity and tension among the characters while retaining the grand scope that made TNG and TOS so fucking great.

    Voyager was like a sitcom set in the Star Trek universe minus the laugh track. View it as such and it actually is a pretty good show.

    Enterprise had high ambitions but ultimately resorted to rehashing tropes, villains, and plots from the previous Treks (arguably TNG, DS9 and Voyager also did this, however). It didn't really become interesting until the third season. The Xindi arc and the increased focus on the militarization of starfleet in season 3 and 4 was clearly the writers' dealing with a post-9/11 world, and I'm sad they didn't get the chance at more seasons.
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  6. #176
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    Kind of related to your observation on age and SW fans. (i.e. younger fans tend to prefer prequels):

    People who grew up with the Original Series tend to prefer that one.
    I was so excited for the new series, but gradually grew very disappointed as it diverge from what I wanted. I stopped watching....

    I grew up on TNG. Picard was my TV dad. I have a soft spot in my heart for TNG. That said, looking back objectively, it was far from perfect. The early seasons felt like a rehash. However, it really came into its own in season 3 and was nearly flawless through season 5. Picard grew as a character after they "humanized" him when he was assimilated by the Borg. Cracks began to show in season 6. I've never related more to characters than I have to Data, Worf, and to a lesser extent Odo from DS9 and Seven from Voyager.
    An INTP relating to Data? Shocking!

    I have always viewed TNG as an improvement on TOS. The main weakness was the lack of conflict of tension between characters, but then that forced the writers to be more creative and look for conflict and tension on a grander scale. It's not too hard to believe though, because on a starship, you'd need everyone to put their differences aside and work as a team.
    But the lack of internal drama was boring......

    DS9 may be a ripoff of Babylon 5, but it's possibly the greatest Trek show ever. They introduced more complexity and tension among the characters while retaining the grand scope that made TNG and TOS so fucking great.
    Exactly.

    It might be the best series, but fwiw is less original. Paramount did plan to put Babylon 5 in the Star Trek universe but then just took the story and making it their own version of it.

    And Babylon showed that you didn't need to be limited by the Star Trek universe to do a good SF series, but Firefly and other shows did that as well.

    Ultimately, the Star Trek universe has its basis in a 2 year TV show from the 60s, which really limited the things at times. Its longevity is amazing given that (long live syndication!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  7. #177
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    I was so excited for the new series, but gradually grew very disappointed as it diverge from what I wanted. I stopped watching....
    It's all a matter of personal preference. I thought it was better when it wasn't trying to be TOS 2.0. The difference in tone can be chalked up to the changes in management as the show progressed. Early on there were a fair number of Original series veterans running it.

    An INTP relating to Data? Shocking!
    I've also seen Worf occasionally typed as INTP. Most say ISTJ because of the hardass demeanor and strict adherance to tradition, but I could probably make an argument for him as an INTP even if I didn't personally agree.


    But the lack of internal drama was boring......
    Agreed. It was also more episodic, making character arcs less important. I'd call it a situation-driven show, whereas DS9 was character-drive. TOS was a balance of the two. That's why the best characters are Worf and Data, because they are such fish-out-of-water types. The rest were boring, save for Picard. Another Geordi episode? SNORE. Although I enjoy Riker episodes because he always gets placed in uncomfortable situations. There's some satisfaction to be had in seeing such a by-the-book, straightlaced guy getting thrown into awkward scenarios.

    My biggest complaint with TOS is that the background characters never got to be more than background characters. It was essentially the Kirk Spock hour with occasional emphasis on McCoy and Scotty. Ever notice when Scotty calls Kirk Jim in "Mirror Mirror?" That was always weird but also suggests another dynamic between the two that was rarely explored.

  8. #178
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    I've hijacked another SW thread with Trek talk. Why does this always happen to me? @whatever we may need a trek discussion thread for this.

  9. #179
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    BTW The Inner Light is possibly the greatest one hour episode ever written for ANY SERIES EVER.
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  10. #180
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So it sounds like a confirmation of the S and N demographic I stated with Wars vs Trek.

    I say Bond because S and N types both like it, but I think N types can become more loyal to it. There are a lot of twists and turns in it that S types might not care as much for. Puns also.
    I no loadz uv peepol who luv B0nd n Stur Truk, who d3f arnt N tipes. Cud b3 cultral tho.

    Bt den, dat defeets ur punt az w3el.

    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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