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  1. #11
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    Watched the first three episodes of Season 2 at this point again. A few points (spoilered for EJCC and others):







    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    that was a great summary and analysis. That idea of feeling alive doing something you are good at, is something woefully lacking in too many lives.
    I think that's one of the connection points to Walt -- that he is sympathetic at first because we can identify with feeling like we've let life pass us by and suddenly it could be over, and what do we have to show for it? Even if we are loved and have people we care about?

    I think it's a strength of the show, because there are parts like that that are accessible but then Walt does things with that, one small step at a time, that we might NOT do, and now there's this ambiguity to his character and we can no longer put him in a box of "good" or "bad" completely. Or, perhaps it allows us to see the path someone can take starting with good intentions and valid feelings, if they aren't careful.

    Again, watching Hank and Walt and Jesse. The latter two make meth and sell it to junkies whose lives now become derailed due to their addition; yet in many ways, as people to interact with, Jesse and Walt seem nicer and cooler overall than Hank, who is perhaps the big alpha male guy but is pretty chauvinist, racist, and crass in much of his behavior and commentary. He is really demeaning to people not like him, yet he also would do anything for his family. This conundrum becomes even more confusing later, when Hank is fighting for the right things on the social level and Walt has become in effect an outlaw, yet there's still a mix of good and bad in each.

    (Reminds me a bit of "Unforgiven" with Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman as well, the boxes get muddled.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    @EJCC oh yeah, you're partway into Season 3..Yea, at that point of the show, I'd more or less agree with you.


  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    EJCC oh yeah, you're partway into Season 3..Yea, at that point of the show, I'd more or less agree with you.





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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    What's not to like??

    1) He's hilarious -- usually unintentionally -- and his banter with Walt is really entertaining (when Walt's not being a dick)

    2) The guy who plays him is absolutely mind-blowing

    3) His soft side is SO endearing and sweet

    4) IMO he's the real hero of the show. The moral center. The only character besides Walt Jr. who seems 100% good-hearted. Maybe the only one who's redeemable, in the end. I'm rooting for him <3
    Yeah, in the beginning of the series we see him or hear about him take the blame unnecessarily to protect people he cares about and taking care of a relative who was terminally ill. He also really likes kids (you might have seen that one heart-breaking episode where he looks after a young boy [edit: Yes, it's "Peekabo", gawd!!!!] , and then of course stuff that happens at the end of the series) and looks out for them. Jesse is not blameless and does a few pretty awful things, but compared to Walter, he seems to have a conscience that won't let him rest comfortably in the things Walter contemplates regularly.

    He also treats all people with respect / as equals, versus Walter's condescension of people who are less intelligent or weaker than himself.

    Maybe this is one reason he becomes easily victimized, as he is running with the pack and the pack keeps chewing him up because he just isn't quite stooping to the pack's level.

    I won't spoil the end, but it's interesting how the series ends up.

    EDIT: Looked at your earlier spoilers. Yeah, I have no complaints there. I understand Walt, but it's hard to go back and watch the begining of the series and see how things become as the series progresses. Some people say Walt "breaks bad," but in later episodes you can convincingly argue about whether Walt "turned bad' or was actually "bad all along." And of course, even there, he still at times manages to be insightful or sensitive at the right times and say things that make him a kind of glorious mess. I still don't know how to feel about him exactly, even after the series ended; I have very mixed feelings about him. But then again, he is written to be an "anti-hero," so I think that's an appropriate response.

    [As a parallel example, I have similar feelings towards the "Thomas Covenant" character in Donaldson's "Land" series -- although he's more evolving towards "good" and starts out rocky -- but he does some pretty despicable things at times, yet you can still understand his mindset, and so at the end there's mixed feelings. Again, the "anti-hero."]

    Gus was great. I had first seen this actor in Revolutions, as a baddie, where he tries to be menacing but he seems very very forced. Here, Giancarlo's portrayal of Gus, despite everything, is one of those meaty roles where he just hits everything right for the character (kind of like Terry O'Quinn as John Locke on Lost) and leaving him unforgettable regardless of whether you like him or not; and he's not cast nearly as blatantly menacing as he was in Revolutions but I think his Breaking Bad persona can at times be more unsettling. He just nailed this. They also do a great job of fleshing Gus out in Season 4.


    EDIT2: Yeah, the final bit of the final episode of Season 3 is a true cliffhanger. Some series are gimmicky about those kind of moments, but I felt like this was a real "OMG, WHAT???" moment and well-earned. And you just can't quite be sure what is going to happen.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
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    Season 2, Episode 3-4



    Episode 5 ("Peekabo")

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, in the beginning of the series we see him or hear about him take the blame unnecessarily to protect people he cares about and taking care of a relative who was terminally ill. He also really likes kids (you might have seen that one heart-breaking episode where he looks after a young boy [edit: Yes, it's "Peekabo", gawd!!!!] , and then of course stuff that happens at the end of the series) and looks out for them. Jesse is not blameless and does a few pretty awful things, but compared to Walter, he seems to have a conscience that won't let him rest comfortably in the things Walter contemplates regularly.

    He also treats all people with respect / as equals, versus Walter's condescension of people who are less intelligent or weaker than himself.

    Maybe this is one reason he becomes easily victimized, as he is running with the pack and the pack keeps chewing him up because he just isn't quite stooping to the pack's level.

    I won't spoil the end, but it's interesting how the series ends up.

    EDIT: Looked at your earlier spoilers. Yeah, I have no complaints there. I understand Walt, but it's hard to go back and watch the begining of the series and see how things become as the series progresses. Some people say Walt "breaks bad," but in later episodes you can convincingly argue about whether Walt "turned bad' or was actually "bad all along." And of course, even there, he still at times manages to be insightful or sensitive at the right times and say things that make him a kind of glorious mess. I still don't know how to feel about him exactly, even after the series ended; I have very mixed feelings about him. But then again, he is written to be an "anti-hero," so I think that's an appropriate response.
    Yeah I think that's a big part of where my "redeemable"/"unredeemable" distinction comes in -- there are a lot of gray areas there, with Walt, but it's pretty clear IMO that even if he were never faced with these choices, even if he never had cancer, he'd still be an arrogant bully, quick to put others down to make himself feel better. Quick to blame others for everything instead of thinking about his own responsibility. With other characters, I can see glimmers of something that make me want to like and respect them, despite their flaws, and I think a lot of that has to do with their potential to be better people. Their good-heartedness. But does Walt really have a good heart?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    You're going to hate me for this, but I think that the show is somewhat overrated. Not a lot, but somewhat. Some of it is just blatantly unrealistic.

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    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    You're going to hate me for this, but I think that the show is somewhat overrated. Not a lot, but somewhat. Some of it is just blatantly unrealistic.
    True, but what show isn't blatantly unrealistic, at least in part?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    True, but what show isn't blatantly unrealistic, at least in part?
    I guess, but something like The Wire is a lot more realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    You're going to hate me for this, but I think that the show is somewhat overrated. Not a lot, but somewhat. Some of it is just blatantly unrealistic.
    Probably. It's a story.

    I wouldn't say that much of Shakespeare's work is "realistic" either, it's condensed / fabricated drama, but it's still pretty damn enjoyable.

    Real life is not nearly so distilled nor cleanly presented.

    I need to watch more of "The Wire"; what little I saw wasn't as appealing, it reminded me too much of the procedurals out there (there was little arc), but since I saw so little, I could easily be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Yeah I think that's a big part of where my "redeemable"/"unredeemable" distinction comes in -- there are a lot of gray areas there, with Walt, but it's pretty clear IMO that even if he were never faced with these choices, even if he never had cancer, he'd still be an arrogant bully, quick to put others down to make himself feel better. Quick to blame others for everything instead of thinking about his own responsibility. With other characters, I can see glimmers of something that make me want to like and respect them, despite their flaws, and I think a lot of that has to do with their potential to be better people. Their good-heartedness. But does Walt really have a good heart?
    I don't know. We can talk about it more after you finish based on where the series goes; but when you see these THINGS pop out of Walt earlier in the series -- like, "Where in God's name did that come from?" -- it makes you strongly consider that while on the surface he was very civilized and defanged and sensitive in the beginning, underneath it appears he had been cultivating this persona of bitterness and emptiness and disappointment -> anger -> for a long long long time.

    I still would love to know why he walked out on Gretchen. I don't recall there ever being an explanation for that (?).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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