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  1. #11
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    The parts of that cartoon i related to were the social isolation, and at times, putting too much self-esteem into whether or not I had a woman/women. I'm an extrovert, but perhaps the pickiest of the extroverts when it comes to finding my "tribe" or group of friends.

    Ha, and at 30, hearing "Youth is a time for action!" from the marine dad, I think he was probably right. I squandered much of mine.

    Crumb is the bomb. I was actually a little confused at first cuz his brother is Charles, and I was thinking Charles Bukowski, cuz they collaborated on several things.

    Good doo-doo.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    The parts of that cartoon i related to were the social isolation, and at times, putting too much self-esteem into whether or not I had a woman/women. I'm an extrovert, but perhaps the pickiest of the extroverts when it comes to finding my "tribe" or group of friends.

    Ha, and at 30, hearing "Youth is a time for action!" from the marine dad, I think he was probably right. I squandered much of mine.
    It should also be a parent's duty to give the child a sense of direction. Some good role-modeling would also help. My ISFJ father wasn't a marine in any sense - he was 4f - but he was all about putting on a false front for society just like they were in the cartoon. He knew everything about what society expected to see from a family, but he knew exactly nothing about his family's needs, wants, and desires. And so, for example, he would commonly give money as a gift at holidays, which is okay of course, but it indicated that he didn't want to put any thought into a gift. This got him in trouble one time, when he gave a girlfriend of his (post-divorce) money for her birthday. This made her feel like a whore. He didn't understand that. He thought money was a catch-all solution to the problem of gift-giving. So his people-pleasing methodology didn't always work out. Both of my parents were too aloof. And in the cartoon, both parents were too busy tending to their own needs, either the mother's mental illness or the father being away from home most of the time working two jobs so he could avoid the craziness of his home life.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    It should also be a parent's duty to give the child a sense of direction. Some good role-modeling would also help. My ISFJ father wasn't a marine in any sense - he was 4f - but he was all about putting on a false front for society just like they were in the cartoon. He knew everything about what society expected to see from a family, but he knew exactly nothing about his family's needs, wants, and desires. And so, for example, he would commonly give money as a gift at holidays, which is okay of course, but it indicated that he didn't want to put any thought into a gift. This got him in trouble one time, when he gave a girlfriend of his (post-divorce) money for her birthday. This made her feel like a whore. He didn't understand that. He thought money was a catch-all solution to the problem of gift-giving. So his people-pleasing methodology didn't always work out. Both of my parents were too aloof. And in the cartoon, both parents were too busy tending to their own needs, either the mother's mental illness or the father being away from home most of the time working two jobs so he could avoid the craziness of his home life.
    In the documentary that I mentioned, by 1994 the brother Charles is a shut-in living at home peaceably with the mother. The father is dead. The mother is presented in a fairly benign light, whereas Robert and Charles talk about how their father more or less terrorized them with his strict ways.

    OTOH, Robert and Charles admit that their mother coddled them and that they probably would have been healthier if they had listened to the father more. They felt bad for him that he ended up with three weirdo, geeky sons. They also mentioned the period when the mother started taking a lot of diet pills, was driven nuts by the amphetamines in the pills, and clawed up the father's face so badly that he had to wear make-up to work.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The angst of the lonely, depressed teenage male:
    Apropos of the OP:

    The comic in the OP details the social isolation and alienation of the author (Robert Crumb) in his childhood and teens. The comic pretty much comes to an end as the author achieves adulthood. Of course, any reader of Robert Crumb knows that he went on to largely create the "underground comics" genre from scratch, starting with "Zap Comix" in the mid-1960s.

    The documentary film that I mentioned earlier fills in some gaps. It presents even a more powerful picture of isolation and alienation of the family as a whole, and it shows that Robert maintained a sense of alienation into his adulthood. Even with fame, love, and friendship, Robert never really connects deeply with anyone. The people in his life serve mostly as characters and portraits for his comics.

    Meantime, his art itself comes from within: Nightmares, fantasies, fear and dread of social convention, LSD trips, and some nostalgia for the 1920s-1940s, before he was born. Any immature sex or race or rape fantasy can become the subject of a comic strip. At one point he creates a picture of people dancing around; he laughs when a child points at the comic and says that the picture looks happy to her; to Robert, the same picture appears horrifying--a facade of forced unanimity that keeps people from being themselves.

    When he creates racist comics or draws misogynistic scenes, Robert knows what he is doing. To him, it's social satire. It's skirting with censorship laws (in the 1960s) and then with political incorrectness (today). When people object, he laughs: ultimately there's nothing they can do about it. It's like Louis C.K. talking blithely about weird fantasies and his masturbation routines in his stand-up comedy: Once you cease to care what people think of you, you become free to be as disgusting as you want to be.

    Crumb even refuses to take on any projects that would have a big pay-off. He prefers to live on the cheap and march to his own tune. When a big studio got the rights to his "Fritz the Cat" character and made a movie out of his comic, he had Fritz the Cat murdered in a follow-up comic so that no more movies could be made with that character. He doesn't trust the big money or the big studios. Staying small keeps him unattached and beholden to nobody.

    Anyway, to wrap things up:

    That's the tie-in between the social isolation of Crumb's youth and the underground comics in his adulthood: It's all about alienation. Unable to connect with society around him in his youth, he looked inward for solace and inspiration. Eventually that process became his creative source, and his art was fueled by his own id--the kind of humor and material that the world normally forbids. Meantime, he continues to have a poor connection with the world; the world is just a foil for his humor. He pokes at the world with a stick like it's an animal in a cage, and he hopes it can't get out of the cage and strike back at him.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    In the documentary that I mentioned, by 1994 the brother Charles is a shut-in living at home peaceably with the mother.
    "Can you give me one good reason for leaving the house?" - Charles Crumb, social iconoclast.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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