Pristine-Quality Film Discussion Rollerball!

[johnnyyukon]

So I'm guess there's a film club type thread already, but I'm like the honey badger.

[MENTION=22039]Arctic Hysteria[/MENTION] and I have been having some really interesting conversations about some fantastic Korean/Japanese films and wanted to share the love.

But this thread's intention is the discussion of any and all great movies.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I'll start with Cold Fish

This is a pretty fucked up movie from Japan, but it has a lot of depth, the characters are well crafted and played.

Crime, Drama, Horror genre.

I'm gonna kind of jump in the middle of a discussion I was having. Spoilers beware:

That's a new way to dispose of a body, haha, smart. I'm always fascinated by that shit.

Loved this one.

Hilarious, the young kid watching the old lawyer and Aiko have sex. Not sure why they killed him though, he was in the room when they were talking about how they killed the first guy. Figured he was in on it in some capacity.

And rarely does a movie have a nice guy protagonist that’s pretty much as opposite from a manly man as you can get. Sure there’s The 40 Year Old Virgin, but like a horror drama.

I LOVE the antagonist. Jesus. Very uniquley evil. Cracking jokes while he chops up bodies with his psycho girlfriend (wife?).

He kind of reminds me of the Joker, at least the Jack Nicholson one, but somehow believable. Another sublime achievement of this movie (and a lot of the Korean ones including The Chaser). Which makes it all the more creepy and fucked up. SOLID characters, good dialogue, and great story are crucial for me.

And the ultra submissive protagonist (ha, damn foreign movies, can’t even remember his name) behaves pretty much how an ultra submissive man probably would.

I can’t remember what I saw recently, but it was similar in that a nerdy nice guy gets caught up with some real killers and he manages to be super clever and get himself out of all kinds of jams. It was entertaining, but I doubt that’s how it would really happen.

Syamoto (that’s it!) is basically in a state perpetual terror and horror. Fascinating juxtaposition to a total goddamned psycho manipulator/killer. And the filmmakers make it look easy.

And then the mind games crazy-fuck plays. Psychologically dissecting the protaganist and his wife, accurately, I might add. That moment on the small spillway. LIke a scene from japanese, straaaange Fight Club. And then helping him to fuck Aiko, pushing him from behind! haha, oh man, this movie is something else.

If weenie man didn’t finally SNAP, this movie wouldn’t have felt right. But man oh man, did it deliver.

HOWEVER, this is where the movie took a turn for the not so believable. He gets psychologically devoured, gets into a punching lesson, all his rage comes out (that’s believable) but then he like instantly becomes a new man. Meehhh, don’t know if it works like that. BUT, I went along with it.

So sustaining my believability, I guess he rapes and kills his wife because, well I’m not totally sure. He’s become a psycho (ha that scene with the fight had so many parallels with Luke Skywalker and The Emporer. Except this guy joined the dark side) like his “mentor” so that’s one reason, but also cuz she cheated on him? But in the end, the big one, I think, is to show his daughter that he cared more about her than his wife, in a supremely fucked up way. And also to maybe prove Murata wrong, that he was more interested in fucking his hot young wife than raising his daughter.

After you mentioned the killing instruments in Asian films, it was even funnier when Aiko opts out of the knife option and kills Murato with a freaking TV.

Another great aspect of this movie, all the humor incorporated into a very dark film. That’s not easy.

All in all this one had a lot of depth, and I’ve thought about it since. Brutal violence alone is kind of lame to me, but when it’s backed with a lot of substance, that’s quality.

 

[Raffaella]

Yes, I like this idea. I have some to add, it will take me a while to write reviews, though.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION]: Coldfish touches one common topic in many Japanese movies: dysfunctional family. Visitor Q from the Audition guy - Takashi Miike is another effed up one.
The protagonist is damn bullied by his own daughter and shut out from sex by his own wife. He's no "alpha male", no self-worth, no power, no voice, no control, probably forced that way. The guy who gave his biotch daughter a job and offered him money also raped his wife (who knows if she likes it too) as well as turned him into a bodies disposer. Well this guy was designed to doom. The end of suppression turned the switch for the quiet man and he became a mad man, fought back in the face of his own doom, a "breaking bad" phenomenon lol.
I don't know if this guy Sion Ono is simply messed up or just too brilliant. I tried to stomach his Suicide Club, Noriko's Dinner Table and Strange Circus as well. I think if I continue I'll be insane. His main passion is drawing a very depressing picture of Japanese society I can see that.

 

[johnnyyukon]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION]: Coldfish touches one common topic in many Japanese movies: dysfunctional family. Visitor Q from the Audition guy - Takashi Miike is another effed up one.
The protagonist is damn bullied by his own daughter and shut out from sex by his own wife. He's no "alpha male", no self-worth, no power, no voice, no control, probably forced that way. The guy who gave his biotch daughter a job and offered him money also raped his wife (who knows if she likes it too) as well as turned him into a bodies disposer. Well this guy was designed to doom. The end of suppression turned the switch for the quiet man and he became a mad man, fought back in the face of his own doom, a "breaking bad" phenomenon lol.
I don't know if this guy Sion Ono is simply messed up or just too brilliant. I tried to stomach his Suicide Club, Noriko's Dinner Table and Strange Circus as well. I think if I continue I'll be insane. His main passion is drawing a very depressing picture of Japanese society I can see that.

"Biootch" lol.

yeah, agreed. Not just dysfunctional but primarily the root of it coming from a weakling male figure in the household.

I read a brief synopsis of Visitor Q, and recall Audition and all three together, it seems that the suggestion is the loss of masculinity in Japan and just as much, a fear of women. No idea if this is true, but even though the Japanese empire during WWII was Evil incarnate, I cannot begin to imagine the long lasting psychological effects of having 2 atomic bombs utterly annihilate 2 cities and everyone in them. Not to mention their extremely high code of honor, then being completely stripped of it.

Btw, while I think it certainly started as rapey, once she said "Hit me" I figured it was at least consensual rape, haha. Man, some fucked up scenes in that one (but I've seen worse).

The Japanese make American workaholics look like total bums. They literally die from working too much. They even have a word! Karōshi.

And shit, maybe one reason the men can't keep their families together or keep their masculinity in check is they simply do not have the energy after working 80 hours a week. Depressing indeed.

I'm obviously making sweeping generalizations, but that's kinda my thing, haha.

Never been to Japan, but in Taiwan, the men there were definitely scared of assertive white women. Not used to that. And on the other hand, the women flocked to cocky american boys like bees to honey. It was great.

In Cold Fish and Visitor Q (it seems), there's a representation of a masculine man, but he's so goddamned warped and closer to beast than man, that it's nearly impossible to discern what a man is supposed to be. In the former movie, the protaganist and antagonist couldn't be more opposite. Lots of movies have the hero and his nemesis, but they often share similar qualities. Not in Cold Fish. And I'm still not sure if or what the hell the moral or resolution was, haha.

But I didn't mind, it was thoroughly entertaining, and did make me think.

Personally I don't know how you're still sane after watching Martyrs twice. Like, what the hell is wrong with you?? haha

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

"Biootch" lol.

yeah, agreed. Not just dysfunctional but primarily the root of it coming from a weakling male figure in the household.

I read a brief synopsis of Visitor Q, and recall Audition and all three together, it seems that the suggestion is the loss of masculinity in Japan and just as much, a fear of women. No idea if this is true, but even though the Japanese empire during WWII was Evil incarnate, I cannot begin to imagine the long lasting psychological effects of having 2 atomic bombs utterly annihilate 2 cities and everyone in them. Not to mention their extremely high code of honor, then being completely stripped of it.

Btw, while I think it certainly started as rapey, once she said "Hit me" I figured it was at least consensual rape, haha. Man, some fucked up scenes in that one (but I've seen worse).

The Japanese make American workaholics look like total bums. They literally die from working too much. They even have a word! Karōshi.

And shit, maybe one reason the men can't keep their families together or keep their masculinity in check is they simply do not have the energy after working 80 hours a week. Depressing indeed.

I'm obviously making sweeping generalizations, but that's kinda my thing, haha.

Never been to Japan, but in Taiwan, the men there were definitely scared of assertive white women. Not used to that. And on the other hand, the women flocked to cocky american boys like bees to honey. It was great.

In Cold Fish and Visitor Q (it seems), there's a representation of a masculine man, but he's so goddamned warped and closer to beast than man, that it's nearly impossible to discern what a man is supposed to be. In the former movie, the protaganist and antagonist couldn't be more opposite. Lots of movies have the hero and his nemesis, but they often share similar qualities. Not in Cold Fish. And I'm still not sure if or what the hell the moral or resolution was, haha.

But I didn't mind, it was thoroughly entertaining, and did make me think.

Personally I don't know how you're still sane after watching Martyrs twice. Like, what the hell is wrong with you?? haha

In Japanese traditional culture, women are not allowed to enjoy sex, or at least appear to, because it makes them "slutty". Hence expressing pain/ shame/ suffering while at it is considered appropriate. I can pretty much get it from her "hit me" lol.
Man, Visitor Q has some weirdest scenes. And Strange Circus is disturbing. I couldn't finish.

Okay, one easier to digest Japanese movie, Cure (1997). I'd like to bounce thoughts off of anyone that has seen this.

Why what's wrong with Matyrs Each time I introduced a movie to somebody I had to watch it with them. And I'm perfectly sane Johnny, just my NP type 4 demands me to bask in weird stuff. Or am I?

 

[johnnyyukon]

In Japanese traditional culture, women are not allowed to enjoy sex, or at least appear to, because it makes them "slutty". Hence expressing pain/ shame/ suffering while at it is considered appropriate. I can pretty much get it from her "hit me" lol.
Man, Visitor Q has some weirdest scenes. And Strange Circus is disturbing. I couldn't finish.

Okay, one easier to digest Japanese movie, Cure (1997). I'd like to bounce thoughts off of anyone that has seen this.

Why what's wrong with Matyrs Each time I introduced a movie to somebody I had to watch it with them. And I'm perfectly sane Johnny, just my NP type 4 demands me to bask in weird stuff. Or am I?

I didn't know that about Japanese chicks. Maybe that's why I never got into japanese porn. That and the blurry pixels that I think is government mandated, haha. C'mon.

What's wrong with Martyrs? Oh nothing really, it's the feel good family movie of the year, haha. The last thirty or 40 minutes pretty much nothing but beating, humiliating, raping (?), and UTTERLY degrading a young woman in a dungeon, before flaying her alive without killing -that sequence just warmed my heart.

Blechh, never again!

"And I'm perfectly sane Johnny" #1 thing an insane person will tell you

Ha, I like morbid stuff too, believe me, but there's disturbing violence and imagery with content behind it, just enough to get a point across, and then disturbing violence and imagery cuz, what the hell, let's see how much we can get away with.

I mean I "got" Martyrs, I just thought the ending was too much for a point that wasn't really all that interesting.

It was still one of those movies that kept me thinking for days after, so I think that qualifies as a success.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

Ha, I like morbid stuff too, believe me, but there's disturbing violence and imagery with content behind it, just enough to get a point across, and then disturbing violence and imagery cuz, what the hell, let's see how much we can get away with.

I mean I "got" Martyrs, I just thought the ending was too much for a point that wasn't really all that interesting.

It was still one of those movies that kept me thinking for days after, so I think that qualifies as a success.

There are morbid, gruesome movies that I'll never ever watch. I know a friend who watched stuff like Hostel franchise, Human Centipede, The ABCs of Death, Serbian Films, etc., just out of curiosity and we argued because I couldn't understand why he put let those violent crap enter his head, I remember saying something like "now I seriously doubt if you're a sadist!". He's a perfectly sane and happy guy, just way too curious.
I personally thought Matyrs was hard too watch indeed, but the violence was not nonsense in the way that it's only there to scare the shoot out of the audience.

It's funny that I was ok with Matyrs, but I had to cover my eyes during Audition several times lol Probably the method acting made it all so real.

 

[johnnyyukon]

There are morbid, gruesome movies that I'll never ever watch. I know a friend who watched stuff like Hostel franchise, Human Centipede, The ABCs of Death, Serbian Films, etc., just out of curiosity and we argued because I couldn't understand why he put let those violent crap enter his head, I remember saying something like "now I seriously doubt if you're a sadist!". He's a perfectly sane and happy guy, just way too curious.
I personally thought Matyrs was hard too watch indeed, but the violence was not nonsense in the way that it's only there to scare the shoot out of the audience.

It's funny that I was ok with Matyrs, but I had to cover my eyes during Audition several times lol Probably the method acting made it all so real.

With Martyrs, I dunno, maybe I was high when I watched it and therefore more sensitive, but most of the movie had a pretty solid element of believability, so that also adds to the impact of violence.

Audtion, lol, that was one of the first asian horror movies I saw recommended by Rob Zombie on some Horror Movie show. He said "it creeped me out," and if Rob Zombie said that, I knew it had to be fucked up. It was.
The way she talks in that innocent little voice "This wire cuts through bone and meat easily." haha, oh geezus.

I actually saw a quality bootleg DVD of Hostel right when it came out IN a Hostel IN eastern europe on this giant projection screen they had. Krakow. Haha.

 

[Destiny]

Korean and Jap movies? I happened to know quite a few


My top 3 favorite:

1) One litre of tears - This movie is based on a real life biography of a 15 year old girl from japan who suffers from an incurable disease also known as spinocerebellar degeneration. At first she is able to walk, then she started falling down and walking strangely. And then as her illness started progressing further she wasn't able to walk anymore and has to use a wheelchair. And then her condition continued to deteoriate further until she eventually became bedridden and is unable to walk, speak, write, or eat anymore. This 15 year old girl actually has strong willpower and managed to persevere for 10 years until she eventually died at age 25.

2) Shining Inheritance - This movie portrays the inherent selfishness and greed that are found in human's nature and how a person can be betrayed by their own family at times, for example, in this movie, this girl's evil stepmother tried to swallow up her inheritance and even chased her and her autistic brother out of the house when their father "died". And by the way their father didn't actually die, he has been lying about his "death" the entire time because he was trying to escape from his debtors and he wanted his family to claim his insurance and then use those money to help him clear off those debts. But of course that evil stepmother didn't do so, she not only swallowed up all the money and the house and everything, she also decided to chase her stepdaughter and autistic stepson out of the house so that she could have everything to herself. The stepdaughter and stepson ended up on the street, trying to fend for themselves, looking for shelter, looking for a job etc. And there was even once when the evil stepmother brought her stepson to a deserted area and trying to desert him over there. And the stepson is autistic so he doesn't really know how to find his way back, and he only managed to stay alive because he was taken into care by a kind stranger. The entire family ended up separated because of the evil stepmother. But in the end, the good triumphs over the evil, and the evil stepmother's evil doings eventually got found out and the girl managed to reunite with her father and her autistic brother.

3) Sang Doo, Let's Go to School - This movie is basically about this girl who used to date this guy during her high school days, but one day, this guy ended up in prison and when he was released from prison he realized that his girlfriend has left him. He is also unable to find a job because of his criminal record and his lack of education. And then a few years later, the both of them meet up again. She became a teacher, whereas he becomes her student in her class.
And this is how he went all the way out to woo her back.

 

[Raffaella]

Korean and Jap movies? I happened to know quite a few

1) One litre of tears - This movie is based on a real life biography of a 15 year old girl from japan who suffers from an incurable disease also known as spinocerebellar degeneration. At first she is able to walk, then she started falling down and walking strangely. And then as her illness started progressing further she wasn't able to walk anymore and has to use a wheelchair. And then her condition continued to deteoriate further until she eventually became bedridden and is unable to walk, speak, write, or eat anymore. This 15 year old girl actually has strong willpower and managed to persevere for 10 years until she eventually died at age 25.

Wait... this is a movie? 'Cause my roommate recommended to me however she said it was a tv show.

 

[Destiny]

Wait... this is a movie? 'Cause my roommate recommended to me however she said it was a tv show.

hmm I think there is both movie version and tv show version for this, not too sure about it. But I didn't watch this in cinema or on the tv though, I watched it on youtube.
This is the movie version by the way, the entire movie duration is 1 and a half hour. There are English subtitles too.

[Japanese Movie] 1

 

[johnnyyukon]

I'm gonna go ahead and add TV shows here.

The Leftovers, wow.