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  1. #101
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    kiss it to rock what taylor swift is to country.

    this analogy basically states that kiss is pop music that borrows from rock. it's pop music from back in the day. the lead singer from kiss is probably mad for the same reason why most pop artists get mad when they become irrelevant. their music tends to have less substance and be more of a gimmick so it tends to fade away. look at rush for example. rush will always be relevant. the smashing pumpkins will always be relevant. the beattles will always be releveant. kiss is not in this category. they were like x-men figurines...cheap, plastic, and temporary compared to deeper more soulful music.

    look at the roots of rock n roll to see what is actually on the tree....you can't really say kiss is rock if you look at rock's ontology.

    there really is no way to reconcile the theatrics and simplicity, or pop like structure, of a kiss song to let's say a gene vincent song...there really is little to no similarities. there are more similarities between blues music and rock than there are between kiss and true rock musical structure.

    just because there is an electric guitar in it doesn't make it true rock.

    i'm not speaking on guns n roses, led zepplin, aerosmith, etc....these are in fact rock bands...but kiss is in a different category. Saying kiss is rock is like saying insane clown posse is rap...only die hard fans will believe that...or people who don't understand what real rap music is.

    now i'm not saying kiss is no good, or worthless, or not music, or people who listen to kiss are bad. I'm not making value statements. I'm making analytical statements based on the ontology of rock n roll which is very different from what kiss portended to be...this is based on music structure, history - as in actual events not theoretical things, and objective evidence....i'm not saying one is a better song than the other...but one is certainly more rock n roll...and if kiss is on that continuum it's very far far off to the left where rock and pop overlap.

    based on this gene simmons really isn't the spokesperson for rock. he is just a disgruntled has-been pissed off at the current state of rock which is moving closer to it's roots, think jimi hendrix, than to the bizarre theatrics of his time. we see current garage rock moving in this direction...going closer to the blues hence the rise of the slide guitar in rock music again marked by the black keys and jack white among other bands...and we also see some punk rock re-surfacing too. this is a response to bands like kiss that played simple basic music.

    "i shut the door and in the morning
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  2. #102
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    And making a thread about it means you’re either in doubt, ..
    Or you’re trying to connive others.
    Son, I’d say music is taste, has no right or wrong.
    Every genre has is best tunes.
    Keep you’re opinion for yourself.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  3. #103
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    I think most of the people in this thread are missing the point. He's talking about the business model, not artistic ability or the music itself.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  4. #104
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I think most of the people in this thread are missing the point. He's talking about the business model, not artistic ability or the music itself.
    Well yes and no. Before Gene Simmons made his statement there were a plethora of people on the net, mostly rock fans, talking about how KISS killed rock because it was a POP trojan horse which discredited it as an art form.

    So I think Gene is talking about the the business model on one hand, which is quite irrelevant since business models will always change, that is a fact of markets and economics, in order to respond to the critics. I'm not usually a critic and I can dig it, and I'm not a kiss hater or anything, but KISS really is not credible when it comes to talking about rock music.

    However, Gene is credible when it comes to talking about business. He certainly knows how to put on a show but he should be smart enough to know that what he's alluding to applies to all genres of music not just rock. By assuming it's only about rock he is showing a profound lack of understanding or simply retaliating against the critics.

    yes, I know, kiss is in the rock hall of fame...but the rock hall of fame really isn't credible when it comes to rock because it's controlled by a few people and is not representative of all rock fans as a body...it's really an elitist group like the guineas book of records whereby one has to "pay" the gate keepers to enter.

    rock is music of the people and for the people. it will never be otherwise...that is what makes rock, rock...
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  5. #105
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I think most of the people in this thread are missing the point. He's talking about the business model, not artistic ability or the music itself.

    That depends on how that person defines that genre, “rock”.
    Every artist expresses the genre in their own way.
    So again it’s up to ones taste, do you find that artist a good model for that kind of music?
    Again dependable.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  6. #106
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    Well yes and no. Before Gene Simmons made his statement there were a plethora of people on the net, mostly rock fans, talking about how KISS killed rock because it was a POP trojan horse which discredited it as an art form.

    So I think Gene is talking about the the business model on one hand, which is quite irrelevant since business models will always change, that is a fact of markets and economics, in order to respond to the critics. I'm not usually a critic and I can dig it, and I'm not a kiss hater or anything, but KISS really is not credible when it comes to talking about rock music.

    However, Gene is credible when it comes to talking about business. He certainly knows how to put on a show but he should be smart enough to know that what he's alluding to applies to all genres of music not just rock. By assuming it's only about rock he is showing a profound lack of understanding or simply retaliating against the critics.

    yes, I know, kiss is in the rock hall of fame...but the rock hall of fame really isn't credible when it comes to rock because it's controlled by a few people and is not representative of all rock fans as a body...it's really an elitist group like the guineas book of records whereby one has to "pay" the gate keepers to enter.

    rock is music of the people and for the people. it will never be otherwise...that is what makes rock, rock...
    Gene would be the first to tell you that he's not a serious artist. He has said that America has a rich tradition of style over substance and that Kiss is a very American band in that sense. I'm not really a fan of his and I don't necessarily agree with him completely, but I know that he's an experienced and savvy business man and that his thoughts about the music industry and what it takes for aspiring youngsters to succeed and make a living probably merit some consideration independent of how you feel about Kiss. Man, that was a long and convoluted sentence.

    Here's some of what he said:

    Simmons also offers sobering advice for young musicians and songwriters saying, “Don’t quit your day job is a good piece of advice. When I was coming up, it was not an insurmountable mountain. Once you had a record company on your side, they would fund you, and that also meant when you toured they would give you tour support.” He adds, “There are still record companies, and it does apply to pop, rap, and country to an extent. But for performers who are also songwriters — the creators — for rock music, for soul, for the blues — it’s finally dead. Rock is finally dead.”

    He continues on about how he feels for this lost generation of kids who will not have the same opportunity that he had with Kiss. “It’s very sad for new bands. My heart goes out to them. They just don’t have a chance.” Simmons remarks. “If you play guitar, it’s almost impossible. You’re better off not even learning how to play guitar or write songs, and just singing in the shower and auditioning for ‘The X Factor.’ And I’m not slamming ‘The X Factor,’ or pop singers. But where’s the next Bob Dylan? Where’s the next Beatles? Where are the songwriters? Where are the creators?”

    Simmons added that he is not being simply being cantankerous offering, “I’m not the guy to be pouting and complaining about stuff. I make a decent living. I’m very, very lucky. But that’s because we started before the chaos, in the days when people had to buy records. If you didn’t like a band, you didn’t buy their albums, and the people decided.”
    Gene Simmons:
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  7. #107
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Gene would be the first to tell you that he's not a serious artist. He has said that America has a rich tradition of style over substance and that Kiss is a very American band in that sense. I'm not really a fan of his and I don't necessarily agree with him completely, but I know that he's an experienced and savvy business man and that his thoughts about the music industry and what it takes for aspiring youngsters to succeed and make a living probably merit some consideration independent of how you feel about Kiss. Man, that was a long and convoluted sentence.

    Here's some of what he said:

    Gene Simmons:
    oh wait never mind...I misread you....I don't have my glasses on. My apologies.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  8. #108
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    oh wait never mind...I misread you....I don't have my glasses on. My apologies.
    That's okay, mistakes happen. I've made plenty myself.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz
    Likes GarrotTheThief liked this post

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post

    based on this gene simmons really isn't the spokesperson for rock. he is just a disgruntled has-been pissed off at the current state of rock which is moving closer to it's roots, think jimi hendrix, than to the bizarre theatrics of his time. we see current garage rock moving in this direction...going closer to the blues hence the rise of the slide guitar in rock music again marked by the black keys and jack white among other bands...and we also see some punk rock re-surfacing too. this is a response to bands like kiss that played simple basic music.

    I'm not sure how you can say Kiss isn't rock music. You can say it's bad rock music, but it's still rock. I think you need a narrower term than "rock" if you want to exclude them.

    But that's not even really the point I want to make from reading your post. Everything is cyclical. While blues rock and garage rock are having a moment, those genres are like a candle lost in the sun that is pop music. I'm not sure a current trend can be called any kind of a setting of things right as you imply. It's a mistake to interpret the present as an inevitable end point - it's just a point on a timeline. These things will go in and out and in again.

    And not for nothing, but to say the Ramones are a response to bands that play "simple, basic music" is kind of strange. If I had to pick one band in the world to represent "simple, basic music" it's the Ramones. They're bubblegum pop turned up to 11.
    Last edited by EffEmDoubleyou; 11-29-2014 at 09:19 PM.
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  10. #110
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

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