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  1. #201
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    You bring to mind the miniseries of the John Le Carre novels Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and Smiley's People. Some people thought they had slow-paced plots, but I thought it was necessary to show how George Smiley solved the mysteries, step by step.
    Semi-related: I need to finally get around to reading Le Carre. I've read a shit ton of Graham Greene, so I always forget I haven't actually read any of his stuff. I suppose that's the espionage literature equivalent of saying, "Well, I've heard Aftermath, so I guess that covers me for Abbey Road."

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Avatar was a boring, predictable piece of crap. It was a beautiful, boring, predictable piece of crap, but it was still a boring, predictable piece of crap. I could predict every single plot development in that movie at least 30 minutes in advance.

    I don't have an issue with the hero's journey, but for God's sake, put a fresh spin on it.
    Fresh spin? It was in 3D and grossed billions of dollars, didn't it? James Cameron is a blockbuster filmmaker not an artist, for fucks sake.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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  2. #202
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Fresh spin? It was in 3D, wasn't it? James Cameron is a blockbuster filmmaker not an artist, for fucks sake.
    Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar. Same for Ridley Scott... his movies are sometimes flawed, and sometimes awkwardly incorporate modern ideas into historical settings where they really didn't exist, but they're always interesting to watch. I found Prometheus more enjoyable than Avatar, too.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #203
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, Avatar was really well-done 3D honestly... kind of an "experience" when I saw the movie in the theater, and that was the primary reason I went, I wanted that immersive experience and I got it.

    But it didn't add a ton to the genre convention. Probably "The Last Samurai" for me was the best tale of that cloth that I've seen, out of the 5-6 movies I can recall right now that had the same plotline; and even that was historically off a bit since the samurai weren't necessarily all noble historically but also wanted to retain power. Still, at least that version had some meaning and context. Avatar still remains a popcorn-muncher.

    I thought Cameron's "The Abyss" (extended cut) was really good, it might be my favorite of all his movies in terms of the character depth. (And he tried to provide a bit of depth in the extended cut of T2, with the inclusion of Dyson and a learning Terminator, and contrasting its progression towards humanity with Sarah as a human becoming a terminator). It's unfortunate his biggest (and most recent) movies have suffered story-wise. Not that they might not be enjoyable on a casual level, but not as enduring as they could have been.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar. Same for Ridley Scott... his movies are sometimes flawed, and sometimes awkwardly incorporate modern ideas into historical settings where they really didn't exist, but they're always interesting to watch. I found Prometheus more enjoyable than Avatar, too.
    Gawd. It hurts to hear you say that, because Prometheus was edited to death unfortunately and came into the world missing some limbs, but... probably. Yes. And damn, it was a beautiful movie -- not in the way Avatar was, but just in a more transcendent way like when David is in the star sphere. And the whole opening scene with the Engineers. It definitely aspired to more; I'll give Scott that. Just wish they would put back in the 20 minutes or so they cut out, which really gutted the movie dramatically and rationally.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #204
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar.
    I mean, if we're gonna go there, so was Ferngully...
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth
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  5. #205
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, Avatar was really well-done 3D honestly... kind of an "experience" when I saw the movie in the theater, and that was the primary reason I went, I wanted that immersive experience and I got it.
    I didn't see it in theaters, so perhaps that is why I have no reverence towards it of any kind. I was inclined to focus on the story, and I was not impressed.

    But it didn't add a ton to the genre convention. Probably "The Last Samurai" for me was the best tale of that cloth that I've seen, out of the 5-6 movies I can recall right now that had the same plotline; and even that was historically off a bit since the samurai weren't necessarily all noble historically but also wanted to retain power. Still, at least that version had some meaning and context. Avatar still remains a popcorn-muncher.
    So that's worth a watch, then? The period in history is interesting and I'm capable of recognizing that such things aren't documentaries.

    Have you seen the Cage/Christensen vehicle "Outcast"? It appears to deal with similar themes. Looked like a real winner.

    I thought Cameron's "The Abyss" (extended cut) was really good, it might be my favorite of all his movies in terms of the character depth. (And he tried to provide a bit of depth in the extended cut of T2, with the inclusion of Dyson and a learning Terminator, and contrasting its progression towards humanity with Sarah as a human becoming a terminator). It's unfortunate his biggest (and most recent) movies have suffered story-wise. Not that they might not be enjoyable on a casual level, but not as enduring as they could have been.
    Hmm, I haven't seen that. Even so, I feel like even Aliens and the first two Terminators suffered somewhat because of the way the characters are written.

    Gawd. It hurts to hear you say that, because Prometheus was edited to death unfortunately and came into the world missing some limbs, but... probably. Yes. And damn, it was a beautiful movie -- not in the way Avatar was, but just in a more transcendent way like when David is in the star sphere. And the whole opening scene with the Engineers. It definitely aspired to more; I'll give Scott that. Just wish they would put back in the 20 minutes or so they cut out, which really gutted the movie dramatically and rationally.
    Apparently the script was messed around with a lot, as well. Much of the more nonsensical elements appear to be a product of either things being removed from earlier drafts, or slapdash additions in later drafts. It's certainly not a perfect movie, but it's visually interesting and is very compelling within the first half. The movie really fell apart in the second half. The fact that it didn't deliver on the opening led to the movie being perceived as worse than it actually was.

    I'll take an ambitious mess of a cocktail like Prometheus than bland, middling flushed toilet-water like Avatar any day.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  6. #206
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Avatar was a boring, predictable piece of crap. It was a beautiful, boring, predictable piece of crap, but it was still a boring, predictable piece of crap. I could predict every single plot development in that movie at least 30 minutes in advance.

    I don't have an issue with the hero's journey, but for God's sake, put a fresh spin on it. James Cameron has no fucking clue how to do subtlety; all his scripts are filled with cliche characters, cartoon heroes and villains. (It's one reason I think Alien is a superior film to Aliens, although I wouldn't call the sequel a bad movie; it still had more originality in five minutes than Avatar did throughout its whole runtime.) The characters in the Star Wars prequels are nuanced in comparison.
    I dont really remember much of the plot of the movie. I mean I remember thinking that the characters wernt very in depth, and overall that the plot was really shallow. I thought that the movie was extremely pretty, they did a really good job on that aspect of it, it just wasnt enough to sustain my attention for 3 hours or however long that movie was. Imagery can only go so far with me.

    What did you think of the Avengers?

  7. #207
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I dont really remember much of the plot of the movie. I mean I remember thinking that the characters wernt very in depth, and overall that the plot was really shallow. I thought that the movie was extremely pretty, they did a really good job on that aspect of it, it just wasnt enough to sustain my attention for 3 hours or however long that movie was. Imagery can only go so far with me.

    What did you think of the Avengers?
    Avengers was enjoyable, and I think it's preferable to Avatar by a long shot, but it suffered by having uninteresting villains. The strength of that kind of movie really depends on the villain, and it's why I think The Dark Knight has yet to be topped in the superhero genre.

    The ideal villains are either, I think, Machiavellian geniuses or unfathomable forces of nature. They represent our anxieties and our uncertainties. Loki was just a dude who was envious of his brother because of his muscles, and the aliens had no personality. I thought Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was a better villain, actually; he was a guy that was driven by pure hate.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  8. #208
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Avengers was enjoyable, and I think it's preferable to Avatar by a long shot, but it suffered by having uninteresting villains. The strength of that kind of movie really depends on the villain, and it's why I think The Dark Knight has yet to be topped in the superhero genre.

    The ideal villains are either, I think, Machiavellian geniuses or unfathomable forces of nature. They represent our anxieties and our uncertainties. Loki was just a dude who was jealous of his brother because of his muscles, and the aliens had no personality. I thought Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was a better villain, actually; he was a guy that was driven by pure hate.

    Ok yeah, I havent watched it and I generally don't like action movies, but I have heard good things about it and just wondered if it was worth it. Thanks!!

  9. #209
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    family guy makes me want to smash the tv. last time i watched it i said "not funny" after every "joke" but apparently that can be percieved as "annoying" and "unattractive."
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  10. #210
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    I always thought that the deal with BBT was to present "genius" in a manner that was not actually alienating to the average viewer. Like, you throw enough entry-level popsci references to Einstein and quantum physics, and Joe Blow can feel like he's watching "smart television" while still being able to follow the jokes.

    I feel a lot of shows with supposedly brilliant protagonist suffer from this problem. Sherlock and House are examples that come to mind immediately. Beyond the challenge of making genius accessible, is the technical difficulty presented by the medium of episodic storytelling. I'd imagine that having to come up with a problem that is both resolvable in a 20 or 45 minute timeframe, while being complex enough that it would take a seemingly brilliant mind to get to the bottom of it is a pretty demanding feat for a writing room. More serialized programs that allow for more protracted arcs between setup-->resolution can permit a world and characters with realistic shades and ambiguities to evolve, as well as the time a viewer needs to become invested in really understanding them. Such that when Walter White manages to get his money and the rest of his meth stash back from another drug lord armed with nothing but a bag of fulminated mercury, it's awesome rather than gimmicky.
    Is BBT supposed to be about geniuses, or scientists? The two groups are not identical. There are geniuses in every field, and most physicists don't meet the standards of true genius. You don't need the weekly plot to revolve around solution of a complex problem to make the science real and present in the series. It's fine for the plotlines to revolve around relationships and daily life - in fact that is what will keep the show accessible to the average viewer. The science can reside in subplots and background, but in BBT, it doesn't even do that.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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