The Merit of Lana Del Rey

[Tiltyred]

That's what I thought.

I'm thinking maybe it's more about how she speaks to you/for you than it is about her actual musicianship? I don't want to offend you but my perception from the couple of songs of hers that I've listened to leads me to that hypothesis. Like, are you able to separate those two aspects, and if you did, would one come out on top? Or in other words, is the value of the statement she makes so high to you that it trumps weak musicianship?

 

[chickpea]

I felt this appropriate.



I like Lana Del Rey. I didn't know about her until she was pretty popular, but I think she's got a catchy voice and the tunes are easy going and enjoyable. I'm not super elitist about my music or anything, but I think she's far far from 'bottom of the barrel'.

I'd consider this somewhere towards the bottom of that barrel.. I'd say Lana has a lot more class than this:

And even then, that's 1.8 million more views than I've got. so I wonder where that puts me...

This is one of my favorite YouTube videos and I sing this song every single time I go to walmart. Plus it taught me that they call their EBT cards Louisiana Purchase cards, which is so brilliant.

 

[Tiltyred]

I can see her value as a celebrity and for the statement she makes, definitely. As far as I can tell from limited sampling, she's not to my taste to listen to. But I'm glad you brought her up, as I otherwise wouldn't have heard about her.

 

[foxonstilts]

Truth or Dare?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I would do her.

 

[Thalassa]

That's what I thought.

I'm thinking maybe it's more about how she speaks to you/for you than it is about her actual musicianship? I don't want to offend you but my perception from the couple of songs of hers that I've listened to leads me to that hypothesis. Like, are you able to separate those two aspects, and if you did, would one come out on top? Or in other words, is the value of the statement she makes so high to you that it trumps weak musicianship?

Oh no, not true. I listen to National Anthem because it viscerally makes me feel happy, I can have Ultraviolence on as ambiance music. She's all of the above ...I like MIA and Bat for Lashes and Adele but my fandom for Lana is on steroids because it's both muscianship and ideas/identification. She has a more hip hop or bluesy sound but it's the way I liked Tori Amos in high school, but for different reasons. No she isn't a classic piano genius, but I was nursed on 80s synth and dance pop and I like electronic and limited hip hop like Eminem, Tupac and MIA so this is what *I* ,want to hear. She's Not Me for example imo should be released as a dance song.

 

[Thalassa]

I can see her value as a celebrity and for the statement she makes, definitely. As far as I can tell from limited sampling, she's not to my taste to listen to. But I'm glad you brought her up, as I otherwise wouldn't have heard about her.

Ultraviolence is considered her musically mature work...that has better critical reception musically.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm listening to her music and reading up on her. So basically she is Nancy Sinatra meets Buddy Holly.

 

[Evee]

Truth or Dare?

"I always pick truth and then lie"

 

[Kullervo]

Pop music fans...

 

[Opal]

"I always pick truth and then lie"

That's terrible.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

I was among the very first few people that paid some attention to Lana Del Rey when her "Video Games" and her new alter-ego came out back in 2011. I told a few folks that she was going to be the next big thing, and most people were "who's that?" when her name was mentioned at that point.
She has what it takes - the look, the attitude, the image, people a musician should know, some certain amount of talent, money and a distinctive singing style. She's definitely a smart girl too, I'll give her that. I found her stuff catchy. Her songs are all well produced. Her videos are well (financially) invested. She's for sure inspiring. I do have a few songs of her in my playlist, I do hum and sing along some of her stuff because I do genuinely like those tunes.

But that does not mean I will consider her one of the best artists all time, and she never was or ever going to be my "favorite" artist. Now this can be taken as only personal opinion. She lost me at the line "Money is the national anthem. Money is the reason we exist. Everybody knows it, it's a fact. Kiss, kiss". By the time she sang "My pussy tastes like Pepsi Cola", I already stopped caring. I don't hate her though. I don't think she's talentless. But I just lost interest, for me she's another entertainer that comes and goes.
I'm a Bjök, Lykke Li, Madonna-of-before-2000, Thom Yorke, Depeche Mode, Boards of Canada, Muse, Garbage, Grizzly Bear, Damon Albarn, Moderat kind of girl. I don't find Lana Del Rey authentic and philosophical enough. Again, this is personal opinion.

I've interacted in person with the girl for a few times, for a few days, on 2 occasions when she was in her normal clothes and without all the celebrity acts. In close distance, I could tell what was "newly installed" on her face. But as a person, she was just a normal looking, pleasant and polite human being, with pleasant talking voice. And that was it.

My experience and observation tell me that people will never change their preferences and opinions, especially when it comes to abstract, intangible or idealistic subjects like music, movies, literature, love, religion, politics, etc. You say "it's great", I say "it's bad". One says "it's right", another says "it's wrong". Shoving more "facts" to people's face with purpose to prove that your idol should be acknowledged as one of the greatest of all time is NEVER going to change the minds (or should I say hearts) of the ones who already decided "This is nonsense crap". Arguing "this is shit, too bad you can't see that" is not going to change one's taste in music or their fanaticism. Of course, if there's never debate, there's no more fun. But it should stop at the point where one side is passive aggressive, the other is outraged, or both sides passive aggressive, or both sides outraged.

At the end of the day, I'd say, I think this artist is pretentious and not that talented, and you think s/he the greatest thing ever, and we both should accept that, smile, walk away, we could quietly think the other person is fugging stupid though. Quietly.
There are bigger things.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm listening to her music and reading up on her. So basically she is Nancy Sinatra meets Buddy Holly.

Yeah a lot of her music has an undertone of jazz and blues from the forties and fifties, then other songs are influenced more by sixties girl groups. I enjoy her breathy, squeaky and then suddenly deep and sultry vocalizations...there are people who criticize Born to Die for being too poppy, but it was produced by Emile Hainey and some songs were co written by Kenye West, so yes it has a studio cohesive polished sound with a half hip hop half dance beat on the faster songs, while her slower songs maintain her lounge singer feel. Then people who love Born to Die call Ultraviolence "boring" but it's praised as being a more musically mature work. I noticed too when I was younger some younger people were bored by Tori Amos even though she's arguably one of the best artists of the past twenty years because of her classical piano background and operatic vocal range...I like most of her stuff for different reasons, but ironically don't care as much for songs like Video Games which may in part explain why people who have only heard Video Games and not much else don't understand, which is why I so zealously insist they listen to more before they harshly judge...I play her albums for my clients and not one person has complained, and several have asked me to text them album titles. It's because they have no silly preconceived notions about her.

 

[Thalassa]

I was among the very first few people that paid some attention to Lana Del Rey when her "Video Games" and her new alter-ego came out back in 2011. I told a few folks that she was going to be the next big thing, and most people were "who's that?" when her name was mentioned at that point.
She has what it takes - the look, the attitude, the image, people a musician should know, some certain amount of talent, money and a distinctive singing style. She's definitely a smart girl too, I'll give her that. I found her stuff catchy. Her songs are all well produced. Her videos are well (financially) invested. She's for sure inspiring. I do have a few songs of her in my playlist, I do hum and sing along some of her stuff because I do genuinely like those tunes.

But that does not mean I will consider her one of the best artists all time, and she never was or ever going to be my "favorite" artist. Now this can be taken as only personal opinion. She lost me at the line "Money is the national anthem. Money is the reason we exist. Everybody knows it, it's a fact. Kiss, kiss". By the time she sang "My pussy tastes like Pepsi Cola", I already stopped caring. I don't hate her though. I don't think she's talentless. But I just lost interest, for me she's another entertainer that comes and goes.
I'm a Bjök, Lykke Li, Madonna-of-before-2000, Thom Yorke, Depeche Mode, Boards of Canada, Muse, Garbage, Grizzly Bear, Damon Albarn, Moderat kind of girl. I don't find Lana Del Rey authentic and philosophical enough. Again, this is personal opinion.

I've interacted in person with the girl for a few times, for a few days, on 2 occasions when she was in her normal clothes and without all the celebrity acts. In close distance, I could tell what was "newly installed" on her face. But as a person, she was just a normal looking, pleasant and polite human being, with pleasant talking voice. And that was it.

My experience and observation tell me that people will never change their preferences and opinions, especially when it comes to abstract, intangible or idealistic subjects like music, movies, literature, love, religion, politics, etc. You say "it's great", I say "it's bad". One says "it's right", another says "it's wrong". Shoving more "facts" to people's face with purpose to prove that your idol should be acknowledged as one of the greatest of all time is NEVER going to change the minds (or should I say hearts) of the ones who already decided "This is nonsense crap". Arguing "this is shit, too bad you can't see that" is not going to change one's taste in music or their fanaticism. Of course, if there's never debate, there's no more fun. But it should stop at the point where one side is passive aggressive, the other is outraged, or both sides passive aggressive, or both sides outraged.

At the end of the day, I'd say, I think this artist is pretentious and not that talented, and you think s/he the greatest thing ever, and we both should accept that, smile, walk away, we could quietly think the other person is fugging stupid though. Quietly.
There are bigger things.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply you have made some great points and seem to have more of a middle range opinion, and that's cool. It's even fine not to like her. What I get disgusted about are the dumb little remarks about her father and calling her a hipster instead of just saying hey I don't like this artist shrug.

Incidentally, you are taking both of those lyrics too literally. A lot of her music reflects the reality of American capitalism and the golden age of the American dream, and like it or not, what she says about money is true. The irony of the statement should be clear by the way she says kiss kiss at the end. And yes I do think she also has a genuine pull to glamorous lifestyles, as do many people, even if they don't actually believe money is the only reason we exist. She said in an interview she isn't giving anyone advice on how to live.

The Pepsi line is taken from a Scottish ex bf who fetishized American girls, imagining their pussies taste like Pepsi Cola. A lot of her music is philosophically about America as well as being personal. I mean do you also think she literally advocates hitting your daddy over the head with a gun and sticking him in the trunk?

And how is Madonna authentic or philosophical? She's about as post Warhol pop art as they come..btw that isn't a criticism of Madonna at all, I cut my teeth on the Like a Virgin album, in which I am deeply surprised the great Madonna didn't lose you with Material Girl??? Blonde Ambition?? Vogue??? Madonna is a self created commodity. She's an ESTP to the teeth, throwing Madonna into your argument made it seem more than a little irrational..no offense.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I dunno, as far as female vocalists of the last couple decades, I'd choose Latitia Sadier of Stereolab and Cat Power as among the best. I couldn't get into Tori Amos. I respect her and she's talented, but a bit too--I don't even know the word to describe it--for my tastes. Just a personal preference. to each their own.

 

[Thalassa]

Cat Power is cool and Adele likely has the best voice, and like you said to each their own. My ex and I both listened to Bjork and PJ Harvey, but Tori bothered him, like you, he just couldn't get into it. He was a punk baby, I was New Wave toddler, but we agreed on Nirvana, the White Stripes, Nick Cave and Interpol.

It's unnecessary to agree on all music tastes. I just get bothered when one of my favorite musicians are blatantly disrespected, and not even for musical reasons...or like what I said about Madonna...hey how come nobody is saying oh Madonna trying to look like Marilyn Monroe and Edie Sedgwick, singing about using men for money, being fabulous, succeeding, and raunchy sex to a polished pop beat...It's kind of like duh who do they think is one of Lana del Reys influences? She's an 80s baby too, the older wave of Gen Y...a lot of the arguments I hear outside of "I just don't like her music" are so irrational.

 

[Tiltyred]

Oh no, not true. I listen to National Anthem because it viscerally makes me feel happy, I can have Ultraviolence on as ambiance music. She's all of the above ...I like MIA and Bat for Lashes and Adele but my fandom for Lana is on steroids because it's both muscianship and ideas/identification. She has a more hip hop or bluesy sound but it's the way I liked Tori Amos in high school, but for different reasons. No she isn't a classic piano genius, but I was nursed on 80s synth and dance pop and I like electronic and limited hip hop like Eminem, Tupac and MIA so this is what *I* ,want to hear. She's Not Me for example imo should be released as a dance song.

Tori Amos is exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, I get it, I see why you love yourself some Lana.

 

[kyuuei]

This is one of my favorite YouTube videos and I sing this song every single time I go to walmart. Plus it taught me that they call their EBT cards Louisiana Purchase cards, which is so brilliant.

I probably jammed to that like everytime we actually went to walmart with my sister the first 3 months we found this song. I love trashy music.

 

[Jaguar]

Was that supposed to be singing? I'd pay 100 bucks to stop the torturous sound.

 

[Adam]

She's a completely uninteresting doll designed and reared by the American music industry. She is to Florence and the Machine what Step It Up is to 2001.