User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: Star Wars VII

  1. #31
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    There's no continuity with the past movies, or the Expanded Universe. If you look in the comics for example, none of the romantic partners of the Skywalker family's next generation are black. So explain what it could be if not propaganda promoting interracial marriage.
    What is considered Star Wars "canon", if there is such a thing? If the comic books are it, then artistically probably best to follow suit; if not, all bets are off, and producers can go with best combination of acting, cost, and availability. In any case, not sure interracial marriage needs propaganda. It's not that uncommon. People who want it just do it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    There's no continuity with the past movies, or the Expanded Universe. If you look in the comics for example, none of the romantic partners of the Skywalker family's next generation are black. So explain what it could be if not propaganda promoting interracial marriage.
    We're talking about a movie series that filmed in 75-76 in the USA, a "podunk" film that wasn't supposed to really go anywhere and the studios were hesitant to take a bet on. So it reflected the actors they could get at the time, in the culture that existed at the time. (I don't think the first interracial kiss occurred on American TV until 1969 or so.) They added a black actor to the cast for the second movie, I suspect, to help alleviate the "all white" issue since now they realized they were onto something big and realized they needed to expand.

    This isn't because the universe itself was supposed to be about the whites from what I see, as if the movies had been made today for the first time they would reflect a strong cultural diversity because that is what the United States currently looks like, compared to the mid-70's. In spirit and concept (of a diverse universe), this diversification seems very much in alignment with the Star Wars vision to have interracial and even interspecies relationships. It's a series in which even robots are viewed as people.

    Some of the other properties have diversified greatly over the years, including the video games, the prequels, The Clone Wars, etc. If the book series did not diversify enough, that's their problem -- and they are no longer officially considered canon, so... tough luck.

    Anyway whenever Hollywood takes over a movie series they screw it up (eg LOTR vs Hobbit trilogies). They don't even care, propaganda is more important than a good movie.
    I don't have an argument about LOTR and The Hobbit, I'm a fan of the books and not as much of Jackson's vision. I mourn what got lost in the translation-to-screen.

    But here, what on earth do you mean by "Hollywood taking over?" Star Wars always was Hollywood. In fact Lucas pretty much defined Hollywood, with the Stars Wars and Indiana Jones properties in the 70-80's, they defined what a modern blockbuster was. And Star Wars was not a book property translated to screen; its origin WAS on the big screen and got translated to books. The comics and books are derived from the movies.

    Honestly, I suspect you only label it as propaganda because it happens to clash with yours. But the spirit of Star Wars and the galactic senate seems to be all about respect and equivalency of species, let alone trivialities like gender and race. What is happening now that you don't like seems to be fulfillment of the vision that always existed but was at worst imperfectly manifest in the past due to other factors.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What is considered Star Wars "canon", if there is such a thing? If the comic books are it, then artistically probably best to follow suit; if not, all bets are off, and producers can go with best combination of acting, cost, and availability. In any case, not sure interracial marriage needs propaganda. It's not that uncommon. People who want it just do it.
    Actually Lucas' canon police basically released a notice that said all novels, comics, PnP RPG sourcebooks, non-LA games, and any other Star Wars media not officially approved by Lucasfilm are rendered non-canon. Which basically leaves Episodes I-VII, that shitty digital Clone Wars series (not the awesome Tartakovsky animated deal), and maybe a few games like Battlefront II and Republic Commando as canon. The massive EU got thrown out as "Legends" so they can still make profit off their sales but not be beholden to the authors' (better) imagining of the post RotJ universe.

    ...yeah maybe I'm kinda mad. Sorry. I grew up with those books.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  4. #34
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    There's no continuity with the past movies, or the Expanded Universe. If you look in the comics for example, none of the romantic partners of the Skywalker family's next generation are black. So explain what it could be if not propaganda promoting interracial marriage.
    In the movies, there's only one black person of note in the entire galaxy at one time... Haha just saying, Lucas isn't great at diversity or strong female leads.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  5. #35
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Honestly, I suspect you only label it as propaganda because it happens to clash with yours. But the spirit of Star Wars and the galactic senate seems to be all about respect and equivalency of species, let alone trivialities like gender and race. What is happening now that you don't like seems to be fulfillment of the vision that always existed but was at worst imperfectly manifest in the past due to other factors.
    I wouldn't go that far. As Engineer points out, there's not much diversity in the original films, so if they are canon, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect later ones to follow suit. Same for LOTR, as a matter of fact, at least where interesting female characters are concerned. The highlighted sentiment has always seemed much more representative of Star Trek than Star Wars. Yes, they had their diversity issues early on, but were better even then, and have made greater strides since.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. As Engineer points out, there's not much diversity in the original films, so if they are canon, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect later ones to follow suit.
    As I noted earlier, the first original films were in the 75-82 time frame. It was a different country then, and I also consider diversity issues to be part of Lucas' general creative problem rather than a conscious and purposeful statement on racial supremacy or relevance. i.e., it was likely an oversight on his part. Lucas is well known for strong creativity in some areas and horribly lacking creativity in others, and the properties developed by third parties are generally accepted to be more mature and interesting dramatically/characterization-wise.

    Same for LOTR, as a matter of fact, at least where interesting female characters are concerned. The highlighted sentiment has always seemed much more representative of Star Trek than Star Wars. Yes, they had their diversity issues early on, but were better even then, and have made greater strides since.
    I'm not sure that that's valid. I think Star Trek has actually EXPLORED in depth a number of more species because they've had five series (which amounts to what, hundreds of episodes?) and many more "official canon" movies than Star Wars.... I agree with that, they've actually had the opportunity to explore in far more detail -- but it's obvious just watching the Star Wars movies that there are a multitude of species -- it's just that they are visually represented without actually being explicated within the much shorter amount of screen time they all received from the six canon movies -- and that huge galactic space room with what looks like a thousand different planets represented still conveys in general that the universe is very diverse and each of those species has a voice (or did, until the Emperor took over).

    Lucas is generally known as a clod for how he mismanages race -- seemingly not out of intent, but because he usually dabbles in cliche. But that will be fixed with better writers since Lucas has given up some degree of control.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not sure that that's valid. I think Star Trek has actually EXPLORED in depth a number of more species because they've had five series (which amounts to what, hundreds of episodes?) and many more "official canon" movies than Star Wars.... I agree with that, they've actually had the opportunity to explore in far more detail -- but it's obvious just watching the Star Wars movies that there are a multitude of species -- it's just that they are visually represented without actually being explicated within the much shorter amount of screen time they all received from the six canon movies -- and that huge galactic space room with what looks like a thousand different planets represented still conveys in general that the universe is very diverse and each of those species has a voice (or did, until the Emperor took over).
    Star Trek originated in the 60's and even then, had more diversity than Star Wars has had so far. It's not just about the numbers of women, blacks, etc. in the cast of characters, though, but rather the whole flavor of the two series. Star Wars began with, "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away", setting the stage for the retelling of a legend. Removed from the here-and-now in every way, it tells the story of some fictional past.

    Star Trek, on the other hand, has always seemed to be showing us the future, and not just any future, but our own: fantastical to be sure, but then those cell flip-phones that predated today's smartphones looked alot like communicators. I think it is because of this past vs. future orientation that I have always enjoyed Star Trek, but had little patience for Star Wars.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    As I noted earlier, the first original films were in the 75-82 time frame. It was a different country then, and I also consider diversity issues to be part of Lucas' general creative problem rather than a conscious and purposeful statement on racial supremacy or relevance. i.e., it was likely an oversight on his part. Lucas is well known for strong creativity in some areas and horribly lacking creativity in others, and the properties developed by third parties are generally accepted to be more mature and interesting dramatically/characterization-wise.
    Buuuuutttt... (and here comes the INTJ Asshole Factor) there's the "new" trilogy, made in the modern era. Sure, Padme seems like she's got a responsibility or leadership position at first, but then you learn: the queen is just an elected figurehead who isn't really a policymaker (Episode I); she's only a mediocre senator (Episode II); and she's basically given up on all her dreams to be Anakin's fuck-toy (pardon my salty language) who is later killed off because REASONS (Episode III). Sure, she gets a somewhat redeeming action sequence where she lockpicks stuff and evades your standard Deathly Conveyor Belt Timed Inexplicably Slowly for Heroic Feats of Prowess, but it's not enough to make her a strong female character. She's just sorta there, despite Natalie Portman's best efforts (early on... later you can tell she doesn't give a shit) to make her be more than she was written.

    And I can't think of any real black people outside of the two security chiefs that work as bodyguards for the queen/senator respectively. And does the average audience member know their names? No... (I do, Panaka and Typho :P )

    Kinda ranty, but even though I prefer Star Wars over Star Trek, you have to hand it to Star Trek for being the most representative and balanced OF THE TWO. Emphasis on that last bit, haha. Even Voyager had that no-nonsense Captain Janeway, who was a badass.

    To cap off my rant, let me just say that I love strong female characters in my fiction, and was really bored of Star Wars not having any "official" heroines as such.

    EDIT:
    Then again, Lucas has only really been about the SFX, and not really the plot or anything else. That's why Star Wars was so successful, because of the groundbreaking SFX... Only when they became commonplace did people notice how crappy his writing was. I guess he doesn't think about a lot of stuff.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Just saw this:

    https://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-w...190900319.html

    At the end of last year Lucasfilm and Disney invited all young aspiring actors to attend an open casting call for roles in J.J Abrams’ Star Wars Episode VII. The casting calls spanned 11 cities across the US and UK and over 37,000 hopefuls attended, with a further 30,000 submitting applications online.
    Having hunted high and low for young and undiscovered talent, the filmmakers are delighted to announce that two actors from the open call call have been cast.

    Crystal Clarke is an American actress studying in Glasgow, UK, who has both stage and screen acting experience and is soon to be seen in her first feature, The Moon and the Sun (to be released in 2015). British actor Pip Anderson is a skilled practitioner of parkour, a discipline that involves propelling oneself through any given environment with incredible grace and agility. Pip recently demonstrated this remarkable skill in a Spider-Man ad for Sony.
    YES.

    I love the opening to Casino Royale. This is so much gonna rock in a futurist setting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Buuuuutttt... (and here comes the INTJ Asshole Factor) there's the "new" trilogy, made in the modern era. Sure, Padme seems like she's got a responsibility or leadership position at first, but then you learn: the queen is just an elected figurehead who isn't really a policymaker (Episode I); she's only a mediocre senator (Episode II); and she's basically given up on all her dreams to be Anakin's fuck-toy (pardon my salty language) who is later killed off because REASONS (Episode III). Sure, she gets a somewhat redeeming action sequence where she lockpicks stuff and evades your standard Deathly Conveyor Belt Timed Inexplicably Slowly for Heroic Feats of Prowess, but it's not enough to make her a strong female character. She's just sorta there, despite Natalie Portman's best efforts (early on... later you can tell she doesn't give a shit) to make her be more than she was written.

    And I can't think of any real black people outside of the two security chiefs that work as bodyguards for the queen/senator respectively. And does the average audience member know their names? No... (I do, Panaka and Typho :P )
    I don't disagree and so I'm not sure why you're mentioning this in response to my posts. I hate these movies and they were still made under Lucas' watch and direction. so they are not "modern era" to me except for the graphics, they are direct results of his dramatic ineptitude, and I think the racism was inadvertently even MORE predominate in these three pics.

    To be clear, any of my kudos was directed towards the video game licenses, maybe Clone Wars cartoons, and other such things. Works done using the Star Wars ideas but not under Lucas' direct supervision. Even in the MMO world, the plotlines for some of the character classes (which can be of various races + either gender) blow away any plotlines in the Prequels. That Sith Maruader line was one of the most awesome things I've ever seen in a Star Wars setting, and the Jedi Knight line wasn't bad either.

    EDIT:
    Then again, Lucas has only really been about the SFX, and not really the plot or anything else. That's why Star Wars was so successful, because of the groundbreaking SFX... Only when they became commonplace did people notice how crappy his writing was. I guess he doesn't think about a lot of stuff.
    I know he's way into Joseph Campbell's "myth" ideas, but other than that... I think he's just much more into the visual artsy angle and has seemed to always struggle with creating realistic characters/drama. I'm surprised the original "Star Wars" came off as well as it did, considering all the main characters are more representative of "roles" versus fully fleshed. Maybe we can credit the actors with that, they made iconic roles seem like real people. Also, at the time, the movies were groundbreaking and inspired a whole new approach to that genre.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,896

    Default

    Are they really going to do this?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

Similar Threads

  1. Star Wars
    By Vicki in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 330
    Last Post: 03-30-2017, 05:45 AM
  2. Leaked Photo from the Set of Star Wars VII.
    By Mal12345 in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-22-2014, 05:40 AM
  3. Star Wars Episode VII Trailer
    By Mal12345 in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-15-2013, 04:57 PM
  4. Star Wars Gansta Rap
    By Metamorphosis in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-13-2012, 08:18 PM
  5. Star Wars hilarity
    By darlets in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-24-2009, 07:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO