Hannibal (TV Series), finally a depiction that lives up to Silence of the Lambs

[lue]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Will as a killer. The show definitely f'd with my head, because I was pretty convinced that he was like, 2 episodes back. Then after watching I thought about it and was like "wait a second, that's not who Will is. this show isn't going to be Hannibal and Will, the serial killer super horror duo"

Same here.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems somewhat hard to believe Hannibal could be so duped by so many. If he's indeed the same Hannibal as is in the Mythos, "Don't lie Clarice, or I'll know."

My thinking is, the whole time he's been trying to get to Will's "dark side." And he's finally getting it, which makes it a bit easier for him to slip up or miss something. And it seems like only Jack really knew, Freddy is hidden, and Alana is just now getting it.

 

[johnnyyukon]

My thinking is, the whole time he's been trying to get to Will's "dark side." And he's finally getting it, which makes it a bit easier for him to slip up or miss something. And it seems like only Jack really knew, Freddy is hidden, and Alana is just now getting it.

That's a good point. He's distracted.

But I was thinking of the meat they ate that was supposed to be Freddie, which was either animal, or maybe the beast guy. If it was not human, Hannibal would know.

And I kinda thought maybe the cadavre techs were in on it, as they would have lied about the dental records of Freddie (it kind of doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be in on it, because it seems hard to believe you could fake teeth on a corpse without those two pros knowing, but maybe).

But yeah, maybe Crawford and Will are the only ones that know. Either way, it's a minor enough detail for me to still enjoy the ever loving crap out of this show.

edit: also, I DON'T find it hard to believe Will can dupe Dr. Lecter, as he is his nemesis (though he doesn't realize yet). The reason Hannibal is so obsessed with him.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

this show isn't going to be Hannibal and Will, the serial killer super horror duo"

It would be interesting at least

 

[johnnyyukon]

It would be interesting at least

No lie.

 

[lue]

That's a good point. He's distracted.

But I was thinking of the meat they ate that was supposed to be Freddie, which was either animal, or maybe the beast guy. If it was not human, Hannibal would know.

Agreed. I don't think it was an animal, I think it was the beast guy (I think someone said that here).

Either way, it's a minor enough detail for me to still enjoy the ever loving crap out of this show.

edit: also, I DON'T find it hard to believe Will can dupe Dr. Lecter, as he is his nemesis (though he doesn't realize yet). The reason Hannibal is so obsessed with him.

Agreed.

 

[Totenkindly]

So this show has a character who literally drinks the tears of children. On any other show, that would seem like a step too far.

Yes, on this show, it didn't seem quite bad-ass enough. Thicker bodily fluids would be necessary to make par.

Great AV Club spoilers. And yes, the first was like, "Srsly?" Pretty much that was meant as a reveal to the audience, not to the character in question -- because if Crawford was smart, I don't think he should have shown his hand yet. Not unless he MEANS for Hannibal to sniff out that something is up.

EDIT: Oh. Johnny already openly spoilered that. But he and I agree on the point. I'm happy Bloom is finally getting her head in the game on this, I've wanted to slap her around a lot this season already... and I've been feeling for quite some time they've been running a game on Hannibal to try to see how far he'll extend himself... but it's a very dangerous game to play. And I don't think they should let more people in on that than they have to.

I'm feeling sick and pissed off about the situation with Margo -- I'll be angry a long time. Mason, that fucker; I wanted so bad to see him take that drop into the pigpen. I'm gonna guess that Hannibal will have to be the cause of whatever takes Mason out of the current picture, to motivate his hatred of Hannibal that drives the later storyline.

edit: also, I DON'T find it hard to believe Will can dupe Dr. Lecter, as he is his nemesis (though he doesn't realize yet). The reason Hannibal is so obsessed with him.

I think, while they're "soul kin" in some ways and both are extremely insightful, Hannibal cannot read Will as much as it has taken Will a long time to get some kind of grasp on Hannibal. Will is far more empathic, he sees symbolic essence of people and merges with them (so to speak) when he perceives how things happened; his internal landscape is more surreal emotionally. Hannibal actually seems to logic through a lot and imposes himself on people versus really being "inside" of them; in fact, they are inside of HIM (bad joke, but you get the point -- Hannibal cannot afford to do something so vulnerable as 'step into the shoes of another'). That difference means while they're both very insightful, they each have a kind of smokescreen into which they cannot see clearly. The enigma is the point of attraction for each to the other. As long as it took Will to get a grasp of Hannibal being a cannibal and killer, it will take hannibal awhile to catch on that Will is gaming him.

I don't think the ruse can go on much longer, though. Their dance cannot remain stagnant, and at some point soon, the dance will demand that Will do something he cannot allow himself to do, and Hannibal will smell it.

EDIT: It's five minutes later and still -- FUCK MASON VERGER. I hate him so much. I hate him as much as I hated that blonde you-know-who!!! I can't believe he did that, his depravity knows no bounds.

 

[Totenkindly]

Oh, and I found this week's recipie:

Ortolan! The Recipe!

Preparing and cooking ortolan is very simple. The following is an brief excerpt made by a kind reader from a review of a book called In The Devil's Garden - A Sinful History Of Forbidden Food, the full review is worth reading and I'll probably buy the book for myself.

The birds must be taken alive; once captured they are either blinded or kept in a lightless box for a month to gorge on millet, grapes, and figs, a technique apparently taken from the decadent cooks of Imperial Rome who called the birds beccafico, or "fig-pecker". When they've reached four times their normal size, they're drowned in a snifter of Armagnac.

Cooking l'ortolan is simplicity itself. Simply pop them in a high oven for six to eight minutes and serve. The secret is entirely in the eating. First you cover your head with a traditional embroidered cloth. Then place the entire four-ounce bird into your mouth. Only its head should dangle out from between your lips. Bite off the head and discard. L'ortolan should be served immediately; it is meant to be so hot that you must rest it on your tongue while inhaling rapidly through your mouth. This cools the bird, but its real purpose is to force you to allow its ambrosial fat to cascade freely down your throat.

When cool, begin to chew. It should take about 15 minutes to work your way through the breast and wings, the delicately crackling bones, and on to the inner organs. Devotees claim they can taste the bird's entire life as they chew in the darkness: the wheat of Morocco, the salt air of the Mediterranean, the lavender of Provence. The pea-sized lungs and heart, saturated with Armagnac from its drowning, are said to burst in a liqueur-scented flower on the diner's tongue. Enjoy with a good Bordeaux.

That whole thing just freaked me out.

---

Apparently some fans were also mad that Book Margo (lesbian) slept with a man to get pregnant.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/23799-margot-vergers-hannibal-storyline-has-really-angered-lgbtq-fans

I don't think it's really that shocking. It's something women have done many times over and Margo clearly just looked at Will as a sperm donor of sorts so her sexuality has little to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they take Margo in a lesbian direction after all of the abuse that she has suffered at the hands of men, but that will probably piss off the same fans again (since it's suggesting sexual preference can be abnormal in origin ... although I don't think realistically one can view Margo as representative of all lesbians, if the show goes that direction).

 

[johnnyyukon]

EDIT: Oh. Johnny already openly spoilered that. But he and I agree on the point. I'm happy Bloom is finally getting her head in the game on this, I've wanted to slap her around a lot this season already... and I've been feeling for quite some time they've been running a game on Hannibal to try to see how far he'll extend himself... but it's a very dangerous game to play. And I don't think they should let more people in on that than they have to.

I'm sooowwy. It seems like everyone that posts in here has already watched the episode, but if it makes you happy, I'll use spoiler thingies.

What makes Will so convincing, also, is that he DOES seem, not only to empathize with Hannibal, but sympathize. Like the story with Misha. I suppose he could be faking it, but it doesn't seem like it in those moments. And for the first time, I actually feel bad for Alana. I suppose you could say she deserves it, but seeing her all confused, terrified, and broken is a new look for her.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm sooowwy. It seems like everyone that posts in here has already watched the episode, but if it makes you happy, I'll use spoiler thingies.

What makes Will so convincing, also, is that he DOES seem, not only to empathize with Hannibal, but sympathize. Like the story with Misha. I suppose he could be faking it, but it doesn't seem like it in those moments. And for the first time, I actually feel bad for Alana. I suppose you could say she deserves it, but seeing her all confused, terrified, and broken is a new look for her.

It's already too late, you spoiled it already!

Alana was pissing me off for the first half of the episode (like when she was dissing Will at his house, then at the funeral -- and he was clearly getting in her face a little, I think, to KEEP her distant)... but when she went to Crawford, I was like, "Yes, finally. FINALLY she's putting things together." And the actor did do a great job with the role this episode... just a pretty textured expression of emotional state as you've stated.

I wasn't nearly as mixed-minded as the AV Club guy:

I just knew Freddie was alive since that episode where Will supposedly killed her. I just wasn't sure where the reveal would be. I'm suspicious on this show whenever we DON'T get to examine the corpse in detail, so I'm also not sure I buy Chilton's "death." When Beverly died, we saw her body in the first few minutes of the next episode -- it was clearly her, and she was clearly dead. But Chilton and Freddie? I don't think we ever saw Chilton from the front, for a prolonged shot, did we?

 

[johnnyyukon]

It's already too late, you spoiled it already!


I wasn't nearly as mixed-minded as the AV Club guy:

I just knew Freddie was alive since that episode where Will supposedly killed her. I just wasn't sure where the reveal would be. I'm suspicious on this show whenever we DON'T get to examine the corpse in detail, so I'm also not sure I buy Chilton's "death." When Beverly died, we saw her body in the first few minutes of the next episode -- it was clearly her, and she was clearly dead. But Chilton and Freddie? I don't think we ever saw Chilton from the front, for a prolonged shot, did we?

I liked your original spelling of "spoilered" better.

Yeah, AV Club guy, "I knew Freddie wasn't dead, but when I saw her alive, I couldn't believe it" Uhhhhh, what?

I actually wasn't sure that Will hadn't killed Freddie. But only DURING the episode. I later thought, no wait that doesn't make sense. Either shows how dumb i am, or how hypnotic this series is. Dumb or not, this show is like, so hypnotic, for realz. The soundscapes are part of it, and I make sure to watch with either my decent stereo turned up or good headphones (there's few scenes without ambient eery music)

And Chilton, I had surmised, based on the close inspection and frame by frame examination of him getting shot (yes, I probably need to get out more) that he was dead. I mean, that bullet went right through his cheek and out close to the brain stem, but possibly through C1-C5 section of the upper spine. Wouldn't surprise me if he was alive, that he may be paralyzed. Plus everyone talking about Chilton in the past tense. But that was before I realized there was a long con. On top of the viewership's new found love (my own included) of Chilton.

 

[Totenkindly]

I liked your original spelling of "spoilered" better.

Yeah, AV Club guy, "I knew Freddie wasn't dead, but when I saw her alive, I couldn't believe it" Uhhhhh, what?

I actually wasn't sure that Will hadn't killed Freddie. But only DURING the episode. I later thought, no wait that doesn't make sense. Either shows how dumb i am, or how hypnotic this series is. Dumb or not, this show is like, so hypnotic, for realz. The soundscapes are part of it, and I make sure to watch with either my decent stereo turned up or good headphones (there's few scenes without ambient eery music)

And Chilton, I had surmised, based on the close inspection and frame by frame examination of him getting shot (yes, I probably need to get out more) that he was dead. I mean, that bullet went right through his cheek and out close to the brain stem, but possibly through C1-C5 section of the upper spine. Wouldn't surprise me if he was alive, that he may be paralyzed. Plus everyone talking about Chilton in the past tense. But that was before I realized there was a long con. On top of the viewership's new found love (my own included) of Chilton.

Do you think if it was a long con, maybe the gun had a blank and what we saw might not have been real? It seemed somewhat staged to me.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Do you think if it was a long con, maybe the gun had a blank and what we saw might not have been real? It seemed somewhat staged to me.

Ohhh no, I took screenshots:

 

[Ginkgo]

So I caved and watched the last few episodes. This shit's getting interesting.

Sorry for my cranky attitude earlier. I know how much a whiner can pollute someone's level of enjoyment.

Also, [MENTION=5510]simulatedworld[/MENTION], you've convinced me. Frankly, Will is just a little too close for a comfort to me, as far as his psychological makeup compares to mine. I think you probably wouldn't be surprised to hear that.

 

[Totenkindly]

So I caved and watched the last few episodes. This shit's getting interesting.

Sorry for my cranky attitude earlier. I know how much a whiner can pollute someone's level of enjoyment.

With a liver so full of bile, you will likely at least survive the season without becoming an entrée.

 

[Ginkgo]

With a liver so full of bile, you will likely at least survive the season without becoming an entrée.

According to the books, does Will actually die? Or was the first episode of season two alluding to a deceptive coup in which Will faked his death? I'm guessing he actually dies. #doesntafraidofspoilers

 

[Totenkindly]

According to the books, does Will actually die? Or was the first episode of season two alluding to a deceptive coup in which Will faked his death? I'm guessing he actually dies.

Answer posted via rep.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Oh boy! Round 12! Methinks things are about to escalate.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Major spoilers on recent episode 12:

Best Quote:
"Whenever feasible, one should always try to eat the rude."

Stray observations:

Oh man, what happens after this initial dream sequence is like some lucid symphony of gore. Beautiful.

Mason is hilariously psychotic.

[Mason stabs Dr. Lecter's expensive leather seat a second time, Lector's jaw literally drops, maniacal laughter ensues and continues] "Just send me the bill! I'm so sorry!"


Dr. Lecter is the karate kid. Though it's realistic as he was trained in Japanese martial arts when he was young.

I love the fatal femoral artery wound to the gangster guido. That's some serious accuracy. He did the same thing in Hannibal (2001) film.

"Jack has become my friend" "Will and I are friends" Awww, Hannibal just wants someone to play with.

I still don't understand how NBC, a network channel, can get away with someone feeding his face to dogs, and cutting off and eating his own nose.

Not complaining though, that scene was um, FUCKED IN HALF. But had hilarious moments: "I taste similar to a chicken gizzard!" "I'm so full of myself!"

 

[Totenkindly]

I just watched it.

I have to say, I love the show's confidence especially in its pacing. Not only has the season been a slow inevitable build, but this episode starts with a lot of very measured, very slow and quiet delivery (especially the scenes with Bedilia.) The show uses sound and imagery to fill in the gaps. And I can imagine the same lines being said by less competent actors (because the lines themselves are not complicated) and falling very very flat.... but here they are agonizing to listen to, in how they're delivered. Just slow, crawling, quiet, measured.... I keep wanting to push to the next line and instead I have to live in that tension of waiting to hear what they're going to say next.



[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION]: I had much of the same reaction as you did. How is NBC getting away with this? That's awesome, though. Much of those scenes were also coated in shadow, so we never clearly see things. Note the mask element at the end as well -- brilliant idea. And Hannibal again shows how he is knowledgeable and precise, he wins by cunning and precision, not necessarily by brute force.

I also love the foreshadowing in the episode -- Will's initial vision in the opening scene balanced against things that happen later.

and the symbolism and loaded dialogue between Jack and Hannibal as they eat the main entree involving the gelatin mold.

Anyway, so much has happened here now to fit with what book readers might know.

major episode spoilers here

In the books, we are given backstory that Mason -- while hopped up on drugs -- at Lecter's goading cuts off his face and feeds it to the dogs (which leads to the events of the book/movie "Hannibal.") Here, they were Will's dogs. But... beautifully played. I love the drug sequence, being in Masons' head. It was even more surreal watching Will and Hannibal calmly discuss what to do with Mason while he's still there cutting off pieces of his face, then cutting off and eating his own nose. Jeez.

The eels are important for later. Also, they've set up a justification for why Margo might behave as she does in that later sequence.

FINALLY WE KNOW HOW MUCH CRAWFORD KNOWS! We got a bit of an indication with Freddie Lounds being alive. But here it's pretty clear Jack and Will are in cahoots from the start, and Will just hasn't gotten anything on Lecter that will stand up in court and send him away and Jack's getting antsy... and Will's integrity is somewhat compromised for his killing of the machine-beast guy and then defacing the corpse.

But now Hannibal's ego and Fe-sense of reciprocity might lead him to let Jack know the truth. Wow.

I also really liked the bit where Will told Hannibal he was actually purposefully creating codependency. How he consistently took away everything from anyone he wanted to relate to, so that only Hannibal was left in their world. I actually don't think Hannibal realized this, I don't think he thinks of himself as codependent. I think it set up the last bit, where he decides if he and Jack are friends, he needs to give Jack something.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I just watched it.
And I can imagine the same lines being said by less competent actors (because the lines themselves are not complicated) and falling very very flat.... but here they are agonizing to listen to, in how they're delivered. Just slow, crawling, quiet, measured


[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION]: I had much of the same reaction as you did. How is NBC getting away with this? That's awesome, though. Much of those scenes were also coated in shadow, so we never clearly see things. Note the mask element at the end as well -- brilliant idea. And Hannibal again shows how he is knowledgeable and precise, he wins by cunning and precision, not necessarily by brute force.

and the symbolism and loaded dialogue between Jack and Hannibal as they eat the main entree involving the gelatin mold.

Yeah, these are powerful actors, and even when they speak softly, there's a huge gravity in their delivery. Brilliant.

On his precision, cunning, control, expertise:
It's so perfect that he chooses a scalpel up his sleeve, just in case, when Mason comes for therapy. That is Hannibal. A fucking scalpel.

Hannibal while eating with Crawford: "Whomever is pursuing whom in this moment.....I intend to eat them."
nyuck nyuck