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  1. #11
    Member Umbriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    That's not a very fair approach to a book you've never read before. If you don't give it a chance, of course you'll hate it.
    Just because the world doesn't work that way doesn't mean it shouldn't work that way.

    "I also don't like stories where everyone who doesn't agree with the protagonist is a bad guy or something."
    Isn't that true of the world though? There is one absolute truth and whether Ayn Rand has found it or not, she is submitting to the fact that there is good and evil and people are either good or evil. She gets so much hate for being bold enough to denounce what she hates. I admire her courage in being so blatantly against what she believes is evil.
    Every other author cowers behind literary devices that leave things open for interpretation or whatnot and they don't truly take a firm stance as greatly as Ayn Rand does.
    I agree to your first part - I expected to hate Jane Austen but Pride and Prejudice and Emma are two of my favourite books. So you never can tell what you're going to like.

    I disagree - I don't think good and evil exist at all.

    I don't like being preached at, so I like it when authors don't tell you to think a certain way, but decide for yourself. Shakespeare is brilliant at this - I'm reading him at school.

  2. #12
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    It is my favourite book ever. Ayn Rand is not only a wonderful writer, but a wonderful philosopher. Atlas Shrugged is the perfect mix between good characterization, intriguing plot and philosophy. I cried several times while reading it. I guess the reason I loved it so much was because a majour theme was value and worth, which is how I view the entire world--in terms of the value or worth of it. I love Dagny Taggart and I wish I were her because she only associates with things that are of worth to her and I admire that because so many times I am surrounded by garbage just because I'm too lazy to take action. That's okay if you don't like it, obviously. I don't understand how anyone could not absolutely love it, but to each his own.
    It was definitely my favorite book for a while. Reading it is a very liberating experience because we can all relate to the people in our lives who try to guilt us and the people who rise in power without merit. These days I still appreciate it but I think it is a work of idealism. Better than communism, but still a world that can't quite exist. I think in reality, Dagney might be a lot more ruthless, wouldn't mind government deals, wouldn't treat her workers so well, etc. But it would be nice if the world were like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I want to read so I can be justified in my hatred. I can't justify hating something I haven't read.
    Yeah, you need to read it. The haters don't know what they're talking about.

    I always hate that there isn't an equal amount of hatred for something like The Communist Manifesto. Communism has pretty easily been the worst thing in history. I guess it is just 'cause communism is ostensibly more compassionate and fair, although in the end it degrades into a kind of Lord of the Flies reality. Atlas Shrugged is like "FUCK THE LAZY PEOPLE." People have a problem with that. I think it is a complicated issue I don't feel like trying to go into right now.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbriel View Post
    I can see what you mean. I think for me though, having realistic like-able characters (sometimes they don't need to be like-able if very realistic or interesting, like if they're a psychopath or something) is one of the most enjoyable parts of reading books.

    I didn't really get that. Who is she to decide what's worthless or has value?
    I guess that's something we disagree on. Personally, it reminds me too much of real life.

    Who is anyone to decide what is worthless or has value? Is no one allowed to have any beliefs or values because we don't have explicit authority to do so?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbriel View Post
    I agree to your first part - I expected to hate Jane Austen but Pride and Prejudice and Emma are two of my favourite books. So you never can tell what you're going to like.

    I disagree - I don't think good and evil exist at all.

    I don't like being preached at, so I like it when authors don't tell you to think a certain way, but decide for yourself. Shakespeare is brilliant at this - I'm reading him at school.
    I guess those are two more things we disagree on

    I like when authors state as guileless and open as possible their opinions.

    Shakespeare drives me insane. His character development is horrible!

    But like I said in my first post, to each his own.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    It is my favourite book ever. Ayn Rand is not only a wonderful writer, but a wonderful philosopher. Atlas Shrugged is the perfect mix between good characterization, intriguing plot and philosophy. I cried several times while reading it. I guess the reason I loved it so much was because a majour theme was value and worth, which is how I view the entire world--in terms of the value or worth of it. I love Dagny Taggart and I wish I were her because she only associates with things that are of worth to her and I admire that because so many times I am surrounded by garbage just because I'm too lazy to take action. That's okay if you don't like it, obviously. I don't understand how anyone could not absolutely love it, but to each his own.
    True, but it's not about one's favorite novel, or liking versus hating it. The original thread was about "best" novel you've ever read.

    Atlas Shrugged is the best novel I've ever read in terms of construction and story arc. It was also a good mystery story. Naturally the characters sometimes come across as flat, and the distinction made between "good" and "evil" characters was portrayed unrealistically. The long speeches may also constitute a flaw in the narration, especially considering the fact that Ayn Rand derided Victor Hugo (her favorite novelist) for adding long historical notes.

    But as a long-time bibliophile, I can't single out any specific book as my favorite.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    Member Umbriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    I guess that's something we disagree on. Personally, it reminds me too much of real life.

    Who is anyone to decide what is worthless or has value? Is no one allowed to have any beliefs or values because we don't have explicit authority to do so?
    No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that what's valuable to you is valuable to you - other people might not give a crap about the same stuff so leave them alone haha.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    It was definitely my favorite book for a while. Reading it is a very liberating experience because we can all relate to the people in our lives who try to guilt us and the people who rise in power without merit. These days I still appreciate it but I think it is a work of idealism. Better than communism, but still a world that can't quite exist. I think in reality, Dagney might be a lot more ruthless, wouldn't mind government deals, wouldn't treat her workers so well, etc. But it would be nice if the world were like that.
    Dagny should have just fucking taken over the railroad. Period.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    True, but it's not about one's favorite novel, or liking versus hating it. The original thread was about "best" novel you've ever read.

    Atlas Shrugged is the best novel I've ever read in terms of construction and story arc. It was also a good mystery story. Naturally the characters sometimes come across as flat, and the distinction made between "good" and "evil" characters was portrayed unrealistically. The long speeches may also constitute a flaw in the narration, especially considering the fact that Ayn Rand derided Victor Hugo (her favorite novelist) for adding long historical notes.

    But as a long-time bibliophile, I can't single out any specific book as my favorite.
    Favourite and best are the same thing. "Best novel" is your opinion, it's not a fact. Why would you think something is the best and not also have it be your favourite?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbriel View Post
    No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that what's valuable to you is valuable to you - other people might not give a crap about the same stuff so leave them alone haha.
    That's your opinion. Others may value screaming their values in other's faces.

  10. #20
    Member Umbriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    I guess those are two more things we disagree on

    I like when authors state as guileless and open as possible their opinions.

    Shakespeare drives me insane. His character development is horrible!

    But like I said in my first post, to each his own.
    It just annoys me when authors do that because what they say is usually rubbish - like Rand's ideas lol.

    George Eliot is the best for realistic characters - Middlemarch is amazing for that. It isn't my favourite book ever (much too long without much plot) but the characters are amazing.

    I think Shakespeare is good at characters.

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