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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I wasn't planning to see it since I did not like the first movie at all, but went with my INFP out of spite -- It was a crappy day, so let's see a movie I was going to hate!

    But... I didn't hate it. I thought there were some really good parts, and the speech about Rue's death was actually quite moving. I still found the 'games' kinda messy and pointless though -- it just seems way too random to make sense. I wanted something more Cube-ish, where it's suggested that if the characters worked together they would be able to figure out the puzzle and get out alive.

    I think she thinks he sabotaged their plans, and killed the other characters. I think she thinks he was biding time to just wipe them all out. Isn't he a career?

  2. #42
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  3. #43
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    My wife's a huge fan of these books and she insisted that I read them as well. I'm not too much into young adult stuff (I prefer more serious and darker settings), but I did enjoy reading the first book. The basic idea was catchy, and especially as a game designer myself, it's interesting to speculate what future spectator games might be like. I can't say the writing was anything special, but at least the tempo was kept quite high all the time and it never really got boring.

    3rd book spoilers:


    As for the characters, I'm most certain that Katniss is INFJ.

    I - She's very reserved and only few (if any) really know her. She shuts out very quickly.
    N - She's a completely idealistic. Not necessarily in the grand scale, but on every-day level. She has trouble being anything else but herself. She's a bad lyer and pretender.
    F - She has burst of emotions and has a very strong feeling component in her.
    J - She doesn't like to adjust to things. She wants to do things her way.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  5. #45
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    3rd book spoilers:
    These factors didn't bother me. The 3rd book is my favourite.


    As for the characters, I'm most certain that Katniss is INFJ.

    I - She's very reserved and only few (if any) really know her. She shuts out very quickly.
    N - She's a completely idealistic. Not necessarily in the grand scale, but on every-day level. She has trouble being anything else but herself. She's a bad lyer and pretender.
    F - She has burst of emotions and has a very strong feeling component in her.
    J - She doesn't like to adjust to things. She wants to do things her way.


    Katniss is so ISTP I can't even imagine there being a debate about it. She does have an inner NFJ, which understandable with this being her opposing type - but these qualities have to be painstakingly dragged out of her against her will by others (and in very difficult circumstances). She not a natural idealist; she just wants her family to be safe and to be left alone.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    These factors didn't bother me. The 3rd book is my favourite.





    Katniss is so ISTP I can't even imagine there being a debate about it. She does have an inner NFJ, which understandable with this being her opposing type - but these qualities have to be painstakingly dragged out of her against her will by others (and in very difficult circumstances). She not a natural idealist; she just wants her family to be safe and to be left alone.
    So how many ISTPs have you talked to IRL, who are so concerned about their families as Katniss is? And so readily respond to their needs as Katniss does?

    Usually the ISTP gets criticized because no one in the family realizes they actually do care (same problem can occur with INTPs), and they don't like to remain emotionally engaged. Why? The natural expression of DETACHMENT.

    Katniss is hyper-protective of her inner world and emotions, but she is not detached. She also has a large reservoir of anger constantly coming out, when people threaten her family or try to violate her wall. This anger actually resembles closely the behavior of INFJ females I know IRL. Is that an ISTP approach? No, they are usually just avoidant and don't as easily leap to anger. Compared it to Andrew Garfield's more ISTP version of Spiderman; detached, easy-going, even if elusive. Katniss can actually express her feelings when she wants; Parker can't do it, he doesn't really know how and isn't actually in touch with his feelings. I think also OVERstate the "idealist" aspect of things for INFJs; the ones I know might be idealistic in some ways and care about the people they love, but typically their sense of privacy is so strong that they don't put their emotions and values out there for everyone to see, nor do they LIKE being roped into things. To be more overt in their ideals like the E's are would put external obligations on them, and they typically avoid that. They can be more elusive, unless you are one of the few let into the inner circle.

    So no, Katniss is NOT "so ISTP I can't even imagine there being a debate about it." Otherwise there would be no debate occurring. I still don't see anything you've said to address the big issue between attachment and detachment, and inner emotional awareness vs lack of it. On the surface, Kat is highly protective and withdraws, but she is not detached and oblivious, she's very canny and aware of the demands being placed on her, in intricate detail. ISTPs are typically not so nuanced in their awareness, they just refuse to be caged.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #47
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So how many ISTPs have you talked to IRL, who are so concerned about their families as Katniss is? And so readily respond to their needs as Katniss does?

    Usually the ISTP gets criticized because no one in the family realizes they actually do care (same problem can occur with INTPs), and they don't like to remain emotionally engaged. Why? The natural expression of DETACHMENT.

    Katniss is hyper-protective of her inner world and emotions, but she is not detached. She also has a large reservoir of anger constantly coming out, when people threaten her family or try to violate her wall. This anger actually resembles closely the behavior of INFJ females I know IRL. Is that an ISTP approach? No, they are usually just avoidant and don't as easily leap to anger. Compared it to Andrew Garfield's more ISTP version of Spiderman; detached, easy-going, even if elusive. Katniss can actually express her feelings when she wants; Parker can't do it, he doesn't really know how and isn't actually in touch with his feelings. I think also OVERstate the "idealist" aspect of things for INFJs; the ones I know might be idealistic in some ways and care about the people they love, but typically their sense of privacy is so strong that they don't put their emotions and values out there for everyone to see, nor do they LIKE being roped into things. To be more overt in their ideals like the E's are would put external obligations on them, and they typically avoid that. They can be more elusive, unless you are one of the few let into the inner circle.

    So no, Katniss is NOT "so ISTP I can't even imagine there being a debate about it." Otherwise there would be no debate occurring. I still don't see anything you've said to address the big issue between attachment and detachment, and inner emotional awareness vs lack of it. On the surface, Kat is highly protective and withdraws, but she is not detached and oblivious, she's very canny and aware of the demands being placed on her, in intricate detail. ISTPs are typically not so nuanced in their awareness, they just refuse to be caged.
    Hm, I actually identify quite a lot with Katniss' character. I'm not sure that means much type-wise, since movie characters are designed to identify with people, but all of her motivations and actions make perfect sense to me. Even her strong idealism is ruthlessly harnessed to reality.

    Caring for your family in a very concrete, practical way is a very ISTP thing to do. It's true that we can come off as not caring because of not being very emotionally/verbally expressive, but at the same time, you'll see us actually doing things to improve the family's situation, if possible. I agree that her emotions are closer to the surface than most ISTPs, though. I could see her as an ISFP, actually. It's always hard to tell with fictional characters (as though typing real people wasn't hard enough!).
    -end of thread-

  8. #48
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So how many ISTPs have you talked to IRL, who are so concerned about their families as Katniss is? And so readily respond to their needs as Katniss does?

    Usually the ISTP gets criticized because no one in the family realizes they actually do care (same problem can occur with INTPs), and they don't like to remain emotionally engaged. Why? The natural expression of DETACHMENT.

    Katniss is hyper-protective of her inner world and emotions, but she is not detached. She also has a large reservoir of anger constantly coming out, when people threaten her family or try to violate her wall. This anger actually resembles closely the behavior of INFJ females I know IRL. Is that an ISTP approach? No, they are usually just avoidant and don't as easily leap to anger. Compared it to Andrew Garfield's more ISTP version of Spiderman; detached, easy-going, even if elusive. Katniss can actually express her feelings when she wants; Parker can't do it, he doesn't really know how and isn't actually in touch with his feelings. I think also OVERstate the "idealist" aspect of things for INFJs; the ones I know might be idealistic in some ways and care about the people they love, but typically their sense of privacy is so strong that they don't put their emotions and values out there for everyone to see, nor do they LIKE being roped into things. To be more overt in their ideals like the E's are would put external obligations on them, and they typically avoid that. They can be more elusive, unless you are one of the few let into the inner circle.

    So no, Katniss is NOT "so ISTP I can't even imagine there being a debate about it." Otherwise there would be no debate occurring. I still don't see anything you've said to address the big issue between attachment and detachment, and inner emotional awareness vs lack of it. On the surface, Kat is highly protective and withdraws, but she is not detached and oblivious, she's very canny and aware of the demands being placed on her, in intricate detail. ISTPs are typically not so nuanced in their awareness, they just refuse to be caged.
    OK, so there is a degree of debate possible

    To me, the things about Katniss that deviate from 'typical' ISTP thinking, feeling and behaviour, come from her being so damaged. Her father's death, her mother's subsequent emotional shutdown and the starvation that followed, really, deeply affected her. Her strength of feeling towards her family (especially her sister) and her need to be the provider and protector, comes from the deep seated fear and helplessness she suffered during those weeks after her father died. I would say she very much a phobic 6w5 filled with anxiety, in this case about losing control over her life (which includes survival, autonomy, and her family's safety). She also possess the 6's sense of loyalty, duty and dedication, as well as their compassion and courage.

    I would also argue she's a very detached person. This does get complicated because movie Katniss is much warmer and pleasant than the grumpier and colder book Katniss - but to make it easier I'll stick to the book version. Katniss certainly feels deeply but she is often very distanced from her emotions - she actively pushes them aside on a regular basis and focuses on practical matters (like killing people in the games). When the PTSD gets worse, it becomes harder for her to do this, as well as when those selfless 6 sensibilities take over (like with Rue and Peeta). I also think she is bizarrely oblivious when it comes to interpersonal matters, in a way only a Thinker could be (not to say that all Thinkers are like this by any means). It's almost ridiculous how blind she is to the fact Peeta is attracted to her and how she manages to have no grasp of how people see her. To me there's no way a Feeler, whose realm of speciality is the interpersonal, could miss this stuff so completely, over and over again - least of all a INFJ. She is emotionally naive, yes, but she puts so little emphasis on emotional matters, both her own and others'. She's a practical person and that stuff is just not her priority.

    To me she's obviously a ISTP because of her skill lies in being a brilliant practical improviser. She almost never plans what she's going to do, even when it comes to the games, nor does she think things through to their possible ends (like the trick with the berries). She just waits till she's in the situation and responses to the elements involved the best way she can; that's her skill - that's her genius. The far reaching elements, like the rebellion, don't have an immediate pull on her. She's rarely thinking about the overarching ideals; she's just busy dealing with the stuff that's right in front of her, one thing at a time. Even in Mockingjay, she has to be dragged into the big picture stuff. While she agrees with the rebellion, she only becomes the Mockingjay in order to protect Peeta - she just uses it as a bargaining chip, not as a opportunity to change the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Hm, I actually identify quite a lot with Katniss' character. I'm not sure that means much type-wise, since movie characters are designed to identify with people, but all of her motivations and actions make perfect sense to me. Even her strong idealism is ruthlessly harnessed to reality.

    Caring for your family in a very concrete, practical way is a very ISTP thing to do. It's true that we can come off as not caring because of not being very emotionally/verbally expressive, but at the same time, you'll see us actually doing things to improve the family's situation, if possible. I agree that her emotions are closer to the surface than most ISTPs, though. I could see her as an ISFP, actually. It's always hard to tell with fictional characters (as though typing real people wasn't hard enough!).
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #49
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    Katniss as an INFJ???



    There are three people I know of who are absolutely, unequivocally, no-questions-asked ISTPs, who are so ISTP it's like they just walked straight out of the most stereotypical ISTP description ever written. They are Clint Eastwood, my grandfather, and Katniss Everdeen. People who think she is an INFJ are confused because she has that stereotypically INFJ "martyr" thing going for her, BUT she did not ask for it, does not want it, and is not really suited for it at all. They kept her out of the plan in this movie because they knew she would just screw it up if she knew. (You know what I'm talking about if you've seen it.) What kind of xNxJ's planning ability would be a liability? She SUCKS at faking emotions and politeness, doesn't give a shit about harmony, doesn't really have any plan at all in the games besides "use arrows (her SP skill) and survive," and is absolutely most at home in the physical world, like SPs tend to be. And just because she sometimes shows emotion and cares about people does NOT make her an F. That is completely ridiculous. ISTPs are known for being quite loyal and protective at times, and can also fly off the rails in anger if pushed hard enough. Katniss fits the profile perfectly. And one of the whole themes of the series is the swapping of traditional gender roles between her and Peeta, who is the more sensitive and emotional one. (I think he is ExFx, leaning more towards NP, but SJ and SP are both possible. Not really seeing NJ.). Katniss is definitely a T, definitely introverted, definitely SP... It really just fits perfectly. I don't see anything INFJ about her actual personality at all. Her "Mockingjay" symbol, maybe, but the actual character? No way.

  10. #50
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Most ISTPs Ive known tend to look like uncaring, laid back bastards. Until you try and touch their family or loved ones. Then you die - or they punish themselves forever for failing to protect them if you succeed in touching them and will make it their mission to hunt you down like an animal if they see a chance. Give an ISTP an enemy to vanquish and all that anger that bubbles under that bored/detached surface becomes like an arrow and the bullseye beckons. In that way, Katniss's fondness of archery is quite a symbolic and poetic manifestation of said ISTP-ness, imho.

    And man, are they emotionally chaotic, vulnerable, reactive and intense when you hit the right spot or you get a glimpse within. And god, do they care. Intensely so. They just don't usually show that to others, as they might take advantage of it and they seem to often find it irrelevant and difficult to share this with others anyways. Only sheer raw brutality that takes them by surprise or relaxing them to the point where they confide in you will make this visible.

    Considering the extreme conditions Katniss is under, I'd say she responds in a very typical ISTP fashion. Her focus, drive and anger as well as her pain and clumsy emotional honesty - due to the veneer being stripped away by the brutality of her life - are quite characteristic of the patterns Ive seen in ISTPs. INFJs tend to be more skilled and poised in the emotional realm, and less focused and adaptable in the physical realm than she is. Which, considering the different priority in the functions that they share, is only normal.

    Id also suggest she is a 6. She is ruled by fear, and paranoid of other people's agendas - and rightly so - and values loyalty intensely.
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