Elysium

[Beorn]

It's not that simple unfortunately.

Basically, even with the best legal system, when you're born poor, chances are you will stay poor your entire life.
There are lots of other factors involved, and most of them aren't that "local": We live in a global system. The way rich countries interact with poor countries also matters a lot.

Sure, there are plenty of other complications, but my point is this is the most fundemental problem. Besides being poor in the west is NOT the same as being poor in a developing country. Even so a legal system won't get rid of poverty completely, but it goes a long way in explaining the difference between the richest countries and the poorest. If the poor don't have access to capital and can't leverage their assets they will stay poor no matter what. Even with little in assets the exponential growth possible through leverage can be astounding. This is especially true because in many places like africa and south america many of the poor are actually entrepreneurs. Economist Hernando DeSoto did a decade of research on the differences between the first world and the third and his conclusion was that property law was the key difference. I'm not discounting that market manipulation and worker exploitation also have a dramatic effect on the poor.

 

[Blackmail!]

Sure, there are plenty of other complications, but my point is this is the most fundemental problem. Besides being poor in the west is NOT the same as being poor in a developing country. Even so a legal system won't get rid of poverty completely, but it goes a long way in explaining the difference between the richest countries and the poorest. If the poor don't have access to capital and can't leverage their assets they will stay poor no matter what. Even with little in assets the exponential growth possible through leverage can be astounding. This is especially true because in many places like africa and south america many of the poor are actually entrepreneurs. Economist Hernando DeSoto did a decade of research on the differences between the first world and the third and his conclusion was that property law was the key difference. I'm not discounting that market manipulation and worker exploitation also have a dramatic effect on the poor.

I was rather refering to globalization.

For instance, a country like the US is a predator. It sucks ressources everywhere it can to maintain a crazy, insane way of living. But it can continue to do so only if you have millions of slaves working hard in third world and emerging countries.

And the corollary of this is that if, for instance, Brazil is currently destroying its rainforest, it's not only because of its legal system.

 

[Azure Flame]

That's what I said: we do not belong to the same world.

Reaching a status similar to mine is almost impossible without a good network, a good family, and very good studies. But you can still dream if you want.

lol. And your "status" is?

Either way you seem to be very much a believer in determinism.

 

[Blackmail!]

lol. And your "status" is?

Guess.

I was born and raised in an upper class family of the French intellectual bourgeoisie. Should you want to buy the flat where I live, it would cost you more than 15000 $US per square meter.

But I do not feel superior to you in any way. I just was very lucky.

 

[Beorn]

I was rather refering to globalization.

For instance, a country like the US is a predator. It sucks ressources everywhere it can to maintain a crazy, insane way of living. But it can continue to do so this only if you have millions of slaves working hard in third world and emerging countries.

And the corollary of this is that if, for instance, Brazil is currently destroying its rainforest, it's not only because of its legal system.

We're just emphasizing different things.

 

[Azure Flame]

Guess.

broke

 

[Azure Flame]

Guess.

I was born and raised in an upper class family of the French intellectual bourgeoisie. Should you want to buy the flat where I live, it would cost you more than 15000 $US per square meter.

But I do not feel by any means superior to you.

That's fantastic. Good for you.

I graduated the US naval Academy, then never used my network. I moved to colorado and spent 2 years building a new network from scratch making 18,000 a year. I met 2 ENFJ's who competed in ninja warrior and used my life savings to start this gym after befriending them.

Even if it doesn't work I'm going to have at least 6 months of CEO experience as a 25 year old on my resume. I'm fairly confident in my ability to accomplish my goal of getting what I want. Once I get a decent paycheck I'll get a small empire in real estate. Despite all of this I run 3 businesses I can fall back on at any time which are expanding rapidly as I have 1500 youtube subscribers and a growing life coach clientele base. They don't call ESTP's "the doers" for nothing.

 

[Evil Otter]

Just one question:

Have you ever been to Germany or to Sweden?

Germany yes, Sweden no. I've also been to Romania, Bulgaria, and lived in Argentina (a very socialist country).

Have you been to at least all 48 consecutive states?

 

[Blackmail!]

Germany yes, Sweden no. I've also been to Romania, Bulgaria, and lived in Argentina (a very socialist country).

Then... do you consider that the Germans are poorer than the Americans, on average?

Have you been to at least all 48 consecutive states?

I've already worked as an expatriate on four different continents.

When you're an university lecturer specialized on urban health and urban ecology, believe me, you travel a lot.
That's also probably why I think I know what living in the slums of a poor third world country really means...

The paradox is that most of their inhabitants are enjoying the dream of living under a true libertarian system, if you understand what I mean. There are no state, no regulations, and almost no police within a slum. Everybody has to rely on its own ressources to survive: it's a kind of human jungle.

 

[Azure Flame]

I once met a businessman who felt it was necessary to tell me I have no experience in business, and I should get a business degree like him, because he's a business professor and his net worth is 39087151-23098 dollars.

I told him, "your rental space is too expensive. sorry I'm not interested." And then I told him to get back to me when he wants to invest in my gym.

lol.

 

[Blackmail!]

I once met a businessman who felt it was necessary to tell me I have no experience in business, and I should get a business degree like him, because he's a business professor and his net worth is 39087151-23098 dollars.

I told him, "your rental space is too expensive. sorry I'm not interested." And then I told him to get back to me when he wants to invest in my gym.

lol.

According to statistics, the first corollary of a high socioeconomic status is education.

Go figure why!?

 

[Azure Flame]

According to statistics, the first corollary of a high socioeconomic status is education.

Go figure why!?

Correllation does not equal causation, and a piece of paper doesn't say anything about experience.

 

[Blackmail!]

Correllation does not equal causation, and a piece of paper doesn't say anything about experience.

Certainly... but nonetheless, can you explain without demagoguery why the first corollary of a high socioeconomic status is education?

Why?

 

[Evil Otter]

[MENTION=3567]Blackmail![/MENTION] this argument is getting old... so put up, shut up. If you really are a French aristocratic professor, what's your name so I can google you and look at your research. You've made a lot of claims, let's see the support. I'm sure [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION] wouldn't mind having that info either.

 

[Blackmail!]

[MENTION=3567]Blackmail![/MENTION] this argument is getting old... so put up, shut up. If you really are a French aristocratic professor, what's your name so I can google you and look at your research. You've made a lot of claims, let's see the support. I'm sure [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION] wouldn't mind having that info either.

Giving your real name to somebody who displays such agressive behaviour on a psychology forum is generally not a very good idea.

But nonetheless, it's not that difficult to find who I am. There are already a few residents of Typo-C who know my own facebook page, those I consider my friends.

 

[Evil Otter]

Giving your real name to somebody who displays such agressive behaviour on the internet is generally not a very good idea.

But nonetheless, it's not that difficult to find who I am. There are already a few residents of Typo-C who knows my own facebook page, those I consider my friends.

I'll settle for empirical evidence. And it's more annoyed than aggressive. As you can see I haven't been using a ton of caps-lock and exclamation points. I merely ask that people support their claims with substantive evidence instead of subjective experience and hearsay.

 

[Blackmail!]

I'll settle for empirical evidence. And it's more annoyed than aggressive. As you can see I haven't been using a ton of caps-lock and exclamation points. I merely ask that people support their claims with substantive evidence instead of subjective experience and hearsay.

You won't trick me that easily, you nasty little otter.

 

[Beorn]

I'll settle for empirical evidence. And it's more annoyed than aggressive. As you can see I haven't been using a ton of caps-lock and exclamation points. I merely ask that people support their claims with substantive evidence instead of subjective experience and hearsay.

That's what annoys you?

It's not the liberal elite simultaneously bragging about their status and privilege while condemning how western society leeches off of the developing world?

 

[Azure Flame]

Certainly... but nonetheless, can you explain without demagoguery why the first corollary of a high socioeconomic status is education?

Why?

I would only agree with you if we changed the word education to "knowledge," because supporting "education" is to support a grandfalloon. And if you think an abstract prestigious title means anything in the real world, keep dreaming.

I graduated the US naval academy and didn't know how to cook fried rice or use a staffing agency to find a job.

 

[Evil Otter]

That's what annoys you?

It's not the liberal elite simultaneously bragging about their status and privilege while condemning how western society leeches off of the developing world?

Yeah that too. I think that's actually the part that set me off on this whole rant to begin with.