• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

INFP musicians?

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Am I in bizarro world here?

Why does it seem like this is the only forum where my conception of INFJ is what everyone else thinks is INFP, and what I think INFP, everyone thinks INFJ?

It wasn't like this until I joined this forum. Does everyone here go by kiersey or something? Cuz in that case I'm an ENTJ.

I'm not even going to talk about it, because everyone's understanding of introverts functions is so ass backwards I'm just going to incite a riot and insult everyone's current understanding of typology.

In short, Ni is a perception function that percieves an overall picture across a larger timespan, while Se is a very point specific perception that is timeless.

The two functions are interconnected. INFJ's are often "the muses" or "the romanticists" as socionics puts it. In my understanding, every one of the artists you mentioned check my box for INFJ musicians.
I'm not sure I follow you. How would you define INFJs and INFP fundamental traits, respectively?

I agree that some of the typings are debatable, but I don't see how those musicians are devoid of INFP traits. Kurt Cobain, for example, seems utterly INFP. Have you read his suicide note? To me it could not be any more INFP-like:

To Boddah (his imaginary childhood friend)

Speaking from the tongue of an experienced simpleton who obviously would rather be an emasculated, infantile complain-ee. This note should be pretty easy to understand. All the warnings from the punk rock 101 courses over the years, since my first introduction to the, shall we say, the ethics involved with independence and the embracement of your community has proven to be very true. I haven't felt the excitement of listening to as well as creating music along with reading and writing for too many years now. I feel guilty beyond words about these things. For example when we're backstage and the lights go out and the manic roar of the crowd begins, it doesn't affect me the way in which it did for Freddie Mercury, who seem to love, relish in the love and adoration from the crowd, which is something I totally admire and envy. The fact is, I can't fool you, any one of you. It simply isn't fair to you or me. The worst crime I can think of would be to rip people off by faking it and pretending as if I'm having 100% fun. Sometimes I feel as if I should have a punch-in time clock before I walk out on stage. I've tried everything within my power to appreciate it (and I do, God believe me I do, but it's not enough). I appreciate the fact that I and we have affected and entertained a lot of people. I must be one of those narcissists who only appreciate things when they're gone. I'm too sensitive. I need to be slightly numb in order to regain the enthusiasm I once had as a child. On our last 3 tours, I've had a much better appreciation for all the people I've known personally and as fans of our music, but I still can't get over the frustration, the guilt and empathy I have for everyone. There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fucking sad. The sad little sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man. Why don't you just enjoy it? I don't know! I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what I used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become. I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful, but since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along and have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess. Thank you all from the pit of my burning, nauseous stomach for your letters and concern during the past years. I'm too much of an erratic, moody, baby! I don't have the passion anymore, and so remember, it's better to burn out then to fade away.

Peace, Love, Empathy. Kurt Cobain.

Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. for her life will be so much happier without me. I LOVE YOU. I LOVE YOU​
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
^This letter is so weird. Totally Fi up to the last sentence and you have an explosion of Fe: "Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. for her life will be so much happier without me. I LOVE YOU. I LOVE YOU"

Either he wrote it later than the rest, and was already in a limit emotional state, or someone else wrote that shit. Also, some people say that the whole letter (up to Peace, Love, Empathy) is about leaving the music business, not about dying. In fact, re-reading it, trying to pretend you dont know about he outcome, you wouldn't say it's a suicide note...
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
oh wait, I got one!

images


INFP or INFJ?

 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
^This letter is so weird. Totally Fi up to the last sentence and you have an explosion of Fe: "Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. for her life will be so much happier without me. I LOVE YOU. I LOVE YOU"

Either he wrote it later than the rest, and was already in a limit emotional state, or someone else wrote that shit.
I took that as a moment of pure and heartfelt emotional honesty, (especially after writing a rather detached explanation). It is a suicide note after all.

Also, some people say that the whole letter (up to Peace, Love, Empathy) is about leaving the music business, not about dying. In fact, re-reading it, trying to pretend you dont know about he outcome, you wouldn't say it's a suicide note...
I suppose it is odd, but I saw the whole focus on the music business as merely a way to demonstrate the emptiness he felt (and how central music had been in his life). What I find more remarkable is the mix of playfulness and serenity in it. It's usual to see someone be that calm and blithe in a state of total disillusionment. Maybe he was just happy that it was soon to be over. :( And strangely, the thinking makes sense to me.

Again, such a INFP...

oh wait, I got one!

images


INFP or INFJ?
I always went with INFJ with Harrison.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I always went with INFJ with Harrison.


INFJ makes sense. I find him the most relatable Beatle... I can understand what he's saying in interviewers, where Lennon just makes me scratch my head (ENFP, I think).

GEORGE: "But it's really the same end as meditation. The response that comes from it is in the form of bliss. The more you do it, the more you don't wanna stop it, because it feels so nice. Peaceful. I believe in the saying, 'If there's a God, we must see him.' And I don't believe in the idea like, in most churches they say now, you're not gonna see him, he's way above you. Just believe what we tell you and shut up. Well, their whole thing is a different way. It's a process of actually having that realization and direct God perception, which is the thing you can attain through chanting and through meditation. And then you don't have any questions. You don't have to ask the vicar about this, because it all becomes clear with the expanded state of consciousness. But you don't get it in five minutes. It's something that takes a long time. So it's really... It's like to give peace a chance, or all you need is love. The thing is, you can't just stand there and say, love, love, love or peace, peace, peace and get it. You have to have a direct process of attaining that. Like Christ said, 'Put your own house in order.' Maharishi said, 'For a forest to be green, each tree must be green.' So the same for the world to have peace, each individual must have peace. And you don't get it through society's normal channels. And that's why each individual must tend to himself and get his own peace. And that way the whole society will have peace."

What do people think? Is this Ni, or Fi?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Sorry, i'm not quite understanding this, are you saying INFP's aren't okay with the dark side?

They are? In my experience, they don't seem to like thinking about it. "that's too depressing" is something I seem to hear a lot from them... and I'm basing this on more than one INFP. You've never known an INFP to get two thirds of the way through a book, and then put it down because it's "too upsetting?" Admittedly, I find this really weird, because isn't the point of art to stir your emotions? If something makes you feel, isn't that good?
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
They are? In my experience, they don't seem to like thinking about it. "that's too depressing" is something I seem to hear a lot from them... and I'm basing this on more than one INFP. You've never known an INFP to get two thirds of the way through a book, and then put it down because it's "too upsetting?" Admittedly, I find this really weird, because isn't the point of art to stir your emotions? If something makes you feel, isn't that good?


Oh wow. You've only met the fluffy variety of INFP.

INFP's can be excellent at embracing the dark side of life, a lot of male INFP's especially. They court the unpleasant, depressing or morose sides of life.

I can't say I've known an INFP to stop reading a book halfway through because it was upsetting, I mean everyone can put one DOWN for a minute or two if the subject matter takes a turn for the emotionally disturbing, but not pick it back up again? What a waste of a book.

But yeah, there a varieties of INFP and one of them embraces the dark, possibly more thoroughly than many other types.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
:devil::devil::devil::devil:
Oh wow. You've only met the fluffy variety of INFP.

INFP's can be excellent at embracing the dark side of life, a lot of male INFP's especially. They court the unpleasant, depressing or morose sides of life.

I can't say I've known an INFP to stop reading a book halfway through because it was upsetting, I mean everyone can put one DOWN for a minute or two if the subject matter takes a turn for the emotionally disturbing, but not pick it back up again? What a waste of a book.

But yeah, there a varieties of INFP and one of them embraces the dark, possibly more thoroughly than many other types.

Yeah. I'm quite comfortable with the dark side. :shock:
But my friend Christina (also INFP) is not at all...
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
INFJ makes sense. I find him the most relatable Beatle... I can understand what he's saying in interviewers, where Lennon just makes me scratch my head (ENFP, I think).

I think Lennon is an ENTP. He had a lot of that Ne+sarcasm ENTP humor...I'm not really able to define it much more than that, but he just gives me the same impression as my ENTP friends.

PS: I don't know what that God rant was all about, but whatever it was, it was not Fi.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I think Lennon is an ENTP. He had a lot of that Ne+sarcasm ENTP humor...I'm not really able to define it much more than that, but he just gives me the same impression as my ENTP friends.

PS: I don't know what that God rant was all about, but whatever it was, it was not Fi.

I just find can't really figure out what the hell he's trying to say in interviews. NTPs... I usually get what they're doing even if I don't agree with it.

Explain what is NTP about this:

John Lennon said:
Because we were performers - in spite of what Mick [Jagger] says about us - in Liverpool, Hamburg and other dance halls. What we generated was fantastic when we played straight rock, and there was nobody to touch us in Britain. As soon as we made it, we made it, but the edges were knocked off. You know, Brian put us in suits and all that, and we made it very, very big. But we sold out, you know. The music was dead before we even went on the theater tour of Britain. We were feeling shit already, because we had to reduce an hour or two hours' playing, which we were glad about in one way, to twenty minutes, and we would go on and repeat the same twenty minutes every night. The Beatles' music died then, as musicians. That's why we never improved as musicians; we killed ourselves then to make it. And that was the end of it.

I don't know what he's talking about. the music was dead? I can't picture an NTP ever saying such a thing. Nothing about that makes any sense to me at all. It sounds like some Fi/enneagram 4 deal that I'm never going to make sense of, no matter how hard I try.

By comparison, Harrison's rambling about God actually makes perfect sense to me. He likes meditation because he directly feels something profound, spiritual, and peaceful, rather than having some priest telling him to just take his word for it. I meditate, and while I wouldn't say that's my reason for meditating, I can get why someone would say that. INFJ.


Regarding what Nintje said, all the examples I'm thinking of are women.
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
I'm a female INFP who is more than okay with the 'dark' side, but yeah, INFP guys can be incredibly in touch with not only the more unpleasant aspects of life, but able to articulate them in incredibly moving ways.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm a female INFP who is more than okay with the 'dark' side, but yeah, INFP guys can be incredibly in touch with not only the more unpleasant aspects of life, but able to articulate them in incredibly moving ways.

Actually, yeah. That's true with a lot of the NFP musicians I like... the music isn't necessarily the most positive 100% of the time. But the INFPs I've known don't like them for that reason.
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
Actually, yeah. That's true with a lot of the NFP musicians I like... the music isn't necessarily the most positive 100% of the time. But the INFPs I've known don't like them for that reason.

I say we take away their INFP cards. It's one of the things I like best about my type, the almost stereotypical ability to roll around like a pig in mud in misery, melancholy and all things death and depressing. You know, before getting back to the rainbows and sunshine.


I'm not sure if he is and INFP or not, but Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins always wrote in a way I could relate to.

Probably the best Pumpkins albums came from a time period where he was married to someone who hated his music and from interviews largely seemed to be in an unhappy marriage (Gish, Siamese Dream and Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness).

Then he got separated, fell in love with someone who loved him back and wrote terrible, terrible music.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I say we take away their INFP cards. It's one of the things I like best about my type, the almost stereotypical ability to roll around like a pig in mud in misery, melancholy and all things death and depressing. You know, before getting back to the rainbows and sunshine.


I'm not sure if he is and INFP or not, but Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins always wrote in a way I could relate to. Probably the best Pumpkins albums came from a time period where he was married to someone who hated his music and from interviews largely seemed like an unhappy marriage.



It's positive and it's not. Brilliant.
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
Today is the greatest
Day I've never known
Can't wait for tomorrow
I might not have that long
I'll tear my heart out
Before I get out

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets
My angel wings
Were bruised and restrained
My belly stings.
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
Today is the greatest
Day I've ever known
Can't live for tomorrow,
Tomorrow's much too long
I'll burn my eyes out
Before I get out
 
Top