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Kirk or Picard?

Kirk or Picard


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    23

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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This has probably been discussed before, but I think an insistence on thread necromancy is unhealthy for forums.

Put me in the agonizer, if you must.
 

Blackmail!

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The Original Serie is much more humorful, and its scenari are better written, for more mature people (TNG being for teenagers: it seems a pretty dull and conservative show in comparison to its rather flamboyant ancestor).

So I prefer Kirk, but only because when you say Kirk, you cannot bring him apart of the classic Id-Ego-SuperEgo triangle formed by Bones, Spock and Kirk. They all are the same person, the same acting team but each time with a different facet.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Really? I prefer TNG. This may be a generational thing. I find it's 90's style optimism easier to relate to than the cold war liberalism of TOS, because it's more familiar to me. I also find the acting better. Certainly, Patrick Stewart is a better actor than William Shatner.

But... about the characters themselves.... Picard is some sort of non-INTP NT, while original series Kirk is some sort of Se dom. (yes, even within the show itself, he's just older and more mature. Look at the original crop of movies, he hates being out of the action, doesn't believe in no-win scenarios, etc.)

Picard seems to be more interested in being an explorer and a discover than Kirk. Kirk seemed to like being a starship captain because it was an opportunity to be a man of action. Being an NT myself, I relate to the former more, as well as the crotchetiness.
 

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Really? I prefer TNG. This may be a generational thing. I find it's 90's style optimism easier to relate to than the cold war liberalism of TOS, because it's more familiar to me. I also find the acting better. Certainly, Patrick Stewart is a better actor than William Shatner.

But... about the characters themselves.... Picard is some sort of non-INTP NT, while original series Kirk is some sort of Se dom. (yes, even within the show itself, he's just older and more mature. Look at the original crop of movies, he hates being out of the action, doesn't believe in no-win scenarios, etc.)

Picard seems to be more interested in being an explorer and a discover than Kirk. Kirk seemed to like being a starship captain because it was an opportunity to be a man of action. Being an NT myself, I relate to the former more, as well as the crotchetiness.

The fifties and the sixties were the golden age of science fiction, and that is reflected in the accuracy and intellectualism of the TOS scenari.
And no, William Shatner is not a worst actor than Patrick Stewart. He's much more vivid and even sometimes abrasive, always eager to make snarky comments. Considering the limited budget and the cheap sceneries they had during TOS, they all were incredible actors to make their stories "believable".

And in TOS, Kirk is not especially "a man of action". He's the ultimate leader, always balancing every extreme under his command, always reactive, and that's different. And that's why he has to seduce every side of the issue. If you look more carefully, he almost never disobeyed direct orders, he just spent his time trying a way to understand them in a slightly more efficient way. I'd say you're confusing the Kirk from TOS and the Kirk from recent movies.

Picard, in comparison, is much more conservative and careful , and he always does what is expected from him. He's the classic, predictable senior leader. He's the boring fatherhood figure a teenager serie would direly need.
 

highlander

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Kirk. Picard is too wimpy or something. Not sure what it is exactly.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The fifties and the sixties were the golden age of science fiction, and that is reflected in the accuracy and intellectualism of the TOS scenari.
And no, William Shatner is not a worst actor than Patrick Stewart. He's much more vivid and even sometimes abrasive, always eager to make snarky comments. Considering the limited budget and the cheap sceneries they had during TOS, they all were incredible actors to make their stories "believable".

Stewart seems to understand subtlety in a way that Shatner doesn't.

And in TOS, Kirk is not especially "a man of action". He's the ultimate leader, always balancing every extreme under his command, always reactive, and that's different. And that's why he has to seduce every side of the issue. If you look more carefully, he almost never disobeyed direct orders, he just spent his time trying a way to understand them in a slightly more efficient way. I'd say you're confusing the Kirk from TOS and the Kirk from recent movies.

I'm not, though. I'm also referring to stuff from movies like Wrath of Khan, which has the Shatner Kirk. Shatner Kirk admitted to cheating at the academy (as shown in the 2009 movie)... in his youth, he probably was more like the Abrams Kirk (though there's the parenting issue, so he was probably somewhat less rebellious).

Picard, in comparison, is much more conservative and careful , and he always does what is expected from him. He's the classic, predictable senior leader. He's the boring fatherhood figure a teenager serie would direly need.

I agree that he's more careful, and that's what I like about him. I believe that quality is underrated in society today. If that makes me a secret teenager, so be it.
 

cafe

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I haven't really watched TNG all that much, so I like Kirk by default, but I agree that it's the chemistry between Kirk, Bones, and Spock that really make the show, rather than Kirk all by himself. I was born in 1970, though, so it may have some influence.
 

Ivy

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No contest. Picard! He's a badass, but a contemplative badass. I love those kinds of badasses.
 

Ivy

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Kirk isn't really contemplative at all, IMO. Sure, he does some ruminating in between the punching out bad guys and the macking on alien ladies. But only when there's nothing else to do.
 

Aquarelle

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Picard, definitely, though Sisko is my favorite captain.
 

Coriolis

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But... about the characters themselves.... Picard is some sort of non-INTP NT, while original series Kirk is some sort of Se dom. (yes, even within the show itself, he's just older and more mature. Look at the original crop of movies, he hates being out of the action, doesn't believe in no-win scenarios, etc.)

Picard seems to be more interested in being an explorer and a discover than Kirk. Kirk seemed to like being a starship captain because it was an opportunity to be a man of action. Being an NT myself, I relate to the former more, as well as the crotchetiness.
I have seen much more TOS that TNG, and agree that there was something quite special in the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship. It took TNG a long time to grow on me after the original. As an individual character, however, my vote is firmly with Picard, for the reasons you and others on the thread have mentioned. I always found Kirk rather annoying, and his successes based as much on luck as anything else.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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As an individual character, however, my vote is firmly with Picard, for the reasons you and others on the thread have mentioned. I always found Kirk rather annoying, and his successes based as much on luck as anything else.

I got Search for Spock off the iTunes store this weekend, and I can firmly conclude that the people who are claiming that nu-Kirk's breaking the rules is something that was never present in the original character haven't actually watched anything with the original cast in a while. If nu-kirk seems more wild, age is probably a big factor, and maybe daddy issues.

In this movie, he very casually decides to break rules because he thinks there's a chance he might be able to get Spock back. There's no doubt or conflict or weighing of his decision to break protocol (at least not in the portions I've watched), he makes up his mind about the whole thing really quickly. Both old Kirk and new Kirk are act first, ask questions later kind of guys.

So, Se dom... probably ESTP.
 
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