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  1. #31
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    What's just funny, and twisted, is that you (and I) don't even get the luxury of just imagining such characters as being of our own ethnicity/race, if you live in this country. Everything is portrayed in such a one sided manner that you simply stop thinking of the stories from your own racial perspective. It's even more obvious when you go to other countries and see how they react to American media, and the stereotypes they build about America based on it. It's been getting a lot better in recent years though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    People are disturbed by the unfamiliar. I don't doubt at all there is true hateful racial sentiment* (plenty examples of that), but in my experience with white people who don't have exposure to minorities (most people in Vermont, for instance, ~97% white, not to mention specificially Christian western euro descendants so a generally narrow grouping), Southern Kross's description of blue eyed blonde girl being innocence personified rings true, overwhelmingly it's just what they are familiar with. So even if they aren't especially racist in the sense of disliking minorities (in practice they act cordial enough when they meet *and* in private attitudes), they still have very narrow expectations of what that means. It's still racism, but I see those groups differently. The thing is, hateful racists are the ones who are going to announce their stuff to the world while the ingrained/unfamiliar variety are just going to be quietly surprised and confused.

    That probably doesn't mean anything in terms of how you see yourself or relate to a character at all, which I can see is an issue all its own, but I figured it was worth pointing out. The loud jerkoffs and the ingrained have similar base beliefs, but they are different in mentality, and their representation online seems heavily skewed toward the former.
    All this is precisely why diverse media representation makes such a huge difference. Movies and TV make a huge difference in how we perceive other races (or minorities in general). If we see minorities in a variety of situations, everyday struggles, different characterisations etc they no longer appear 'other' and strange; they're just an ordinary human beings going about their business. You look at Grey's Anatomy for example, I believe they have a policy where they cast most roles (both recurring and bit parts) irrespective of race - the best person for the job gets it. And because there are so many minorities (more than one token black person, even!) you stop looking at characters based on race and just see them as the same, and feel equal amounts of empathy (ie. identification) for all the characters. This sort of approach can have such a positive affect on society, to slowly break down in-built bias, stereotypes and barriers to empathy.

    *The thing about the hateful racists when I meet them (this happens occasionally, including just last week) is that they seem to assume that it's a universal sentiment, by their nature. Universal, of course, meaning they see I'm a 'fellow white guy.' And figure because I'm a city person I must be acutely aware of how evil those dark people are, seeing them up close and all. "You're from DC?! There sure are a lot of black people up there!...I'd hate living in the city!" (this was seriously the first thing they said after they asked where I was from after maybe 1 minute of conversation) as if they're really expecting me to reply "Yeah it feels great to be away from that dark menace and with some real americans, high five." Genuine surprise I'm not hopping on that train with them.

    Can you elaborate on the perceptions in other countries?
    I'm from New Zealand and I have some family friends that did some travelling in the US. They're a couple in their 40s, one white and one is mixed race (part white, part Maori - native New Zealander). They were staying with some white, American friends (they were distantly related or something - but they were American born anyway), I think it was in Philadelphia. They were just having a look around the city by themselves and came back from a nice day out and told their friends about it. Their friends flipped their lid when they found they had gone to a "bad neighbourhood" (apparently code for "where black people live") - and they were then lectured about how dangerous it was. The couple couldn't understand it because they had met so many friendly people and hadn't found it tense or scary at all. Another time, the couple took a bus somewhere with the people they were staying with. The bus was semi-full and so the couple just took the first seats available. The guy sat next to a black woman and struck up a friendly conversation. They talked about his accent, where he's from, whether they were enjoying themselves in the US, what places they'd seen etc etc. When the couple got off at their stop, their American friends immediately flipped out and said how he wasn't being careful, and how he shouldn't talk to "those people".

    Now NZ certainly isn't free of racism, but my friends were shocked at how casual and blatant it was in America. They couldn't believe that whites seemed to not even see blacks as people, or if they did, they saw them only as threatening. I know plenty of enlightened Americans, so I don't see this as representative of ALL Americans, but it does make you wonder about what the general level of prejudice is.
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  2. #32
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    All this is precisely why diverse media representation makes such a huge difference. Movies and TV make a huge difference in how we perceive other races (or minorities in general). If we see minorities in a variety of situations, everyday struggles, different characterisations etc they no longer appear 'other' and strange; they're just an ordinary human beings going about their business. You look at Grey's Anatomy for example, I believe they have a policy where they cast most roles (both recurring and bit parts) irrespective of race - the best person for the job gets it. And because there are so many minorities (more than one token black person, even!) you stop looking at characters based on race and just see them as the same, and feel equal amounts of empathy (ie. identification) for all the characters. This sort of approach can have such a positive affect on society, to slowly break down in-built bias, stereotypes and barriers to empathy.


    I'm from New Zealand and I have some family friends that did some travelling in the US. They're a couple in their 40s, one white and one is mixed race (part white, part Maori - native New Zealander). They were staying with some white, American friends (they were distantly related or something - but they were American born anyway), I think it was in Philadelphia. They were just having a look around the city by themselves and came back from a nice day out and told their friends about it. Their friends flipped their lid when they found they had gone to a "bad neighbourhood" (apparently code for "where black people live") - and they were then lectured about how dangerous it was. The couple couldn't understand it because they had met so many friendly people and hadn't found it tense or scary at all. Another time, the couple took a bus somewhere with the people they were staying with. The bus was semi-full and so the couple just took the first seats available. The guy sat next to a black woman and struck up a friendly conversation. They talked about his accent, where he's from, whether they were enjoying themselves in the US, what places they'd seen etc etc. When the couple got off at their stop, their American friends immediately flipped out and said how he wasn't being careful, and how he shouldn't talk to "those people".

    .
    It definitely exists, and I'm not offended that you pointed it out. I'm sure people consider the neighborhood I live in a "bad neighborhood" because it has a large black population, even though there's very little crime, and it's even pretty middle class. Hell, I've had people freak out and insist on locking the car doors when just driving through "bad neighborhoods." I'm not saying crime is something to sneeze at, but I've never heard of people committing robbery by attacking cars parked at spotlight. It's definitely not a common occurrence.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #33
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I'd rather have an actor portray the character the right way than to look precisely like them.

    In something like Game of Thrones, race does play a part, because it does in the book. A minor part--but if you had black people playing characters in King's Landing, it might confuse you since they usually come from the Summer Isles. Not a huge deal at all.

    In a situation like this. Who cares? If Jaime Fox does a better job than some white dude, I say it's fine. It's the acting I want to see.
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  4. #34
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'd rather have an actor portray the character the right way than to look precisely like them.

    In something like Game of Thrones, race does play a part, because it does in the book. A minor part--but if you had black people playing characters in King's Landing, it might confuse you since they usually come from the Summer Isles. Not a huge deal at all.
    So what do you think of the casting of the Red Viper? (I take it you've read the books?) A Chilean who looks Chilean is good enough for me.



    He's swarthy enough for me. In my head, he looked something like this:



    Pretty close.

    I want to see some Sand Snakes!
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #35
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    So what do you think of the casting of the Red Viper? A Chilean who looks Chilean is good enough for me.

    [IMG]

    He's swarthy enough for me. In my head, he looked something like this:

    [img]

    Pretty close.

    I want to see some Sand Snakes!
    I swear, I had the SAME image in my head. I'm excited to see Sand Snakes too They have such an awesome part in the book, it'll be great to see them come to life.

    Like I said, it's really just not a big deal overall. If they had casted Jon Snow as a black guy, but he acted well enough, I don't think there's anything to be upset about. It's a little confusing, because Jon clearly isn't a summer islander, but people will get over it and just know.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    What's just funny, and twisted, is that you (and I) don't even get the luxury of just imagining such characters as being of our own ethnicity/race, if you live in this country. Everything is portrayed in such a one sided manner that you simply stop thinking of the stories from your own racial perspective.
    I'm not disagreeing with this. Caucasians have been the majority in the US for a long time and I can understand the frustration that minorities face of not having many fictional characters of the same race. People instinctively look to those who are similar to relate to. But I'm certain that if a black character was changed to a white character, there would be a backlash from that, as well. I'm not convinced that racism is at the root of people wanting consistency in the characters of stories they love, whatever those characteristics may be.

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    As a black man living in America, I am deeply affected by this (not really).

    More importantly--as a Spider-Man fan--Electro was always lame.
    Black, white--dont matter. DOA.

    What about Paul Giamatti as The Rhino? You wanna talk about comic strip blasphemy: He doesnt even wear a Rhino suit for fucks sake.

  8. #38
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    What about Paul Giamatti as The Rhino? You wanna talk about comic strip blasphemy: He doesnt even wear a Rhino suit for fucks sake.
    Occasionally such casting can work -- Phillip Seymour Hoffman was enough of a badass in MI3 to make a guy's balls crawl back into his abdomen, if they didn't just fall off first in shock -- but I have a hard time believing Giamatti can pull this off. I don't think he's got the physical presence or edge for it.

    At least Jamie Foxx has some edge. Did a good turn as a black slaver in Django.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Also, Donald Glover should have been Spiderman. Of course, the purists would have really flipped their lids then.
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  9. #39
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I wish Eartha Kitt hadn't kicked the bucket in 2008 -- CATWOMAN LIVES!!!!
    Halle Berry is still around, so it might still happen.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Occasionally such casting can work -- Phillip Seymour Hoffman was enough of a badass in MI3 to make a guy's balls crawl back into his abdomen, if they didn't just fall off first in shock -- but I have a hard time believing Giamatti can pull this off. I don't think he's got the physical presence or edge for it.

    At least Jamie Foxx has some edge.
    Hoffman was the only exceptional thing about that movie and I am pretty sure that Giamatti will be....interesting. But he drives a dump truck instead of wearing a rhino costume. Lame.

    As for Foxx: Who knows? He is a very good actor, but a "black" Electro is the least of this series problems. The people howling at the "inconsistency" of the character are intolerable doodoo heads afaic.

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