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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    As Southern Cross mentioned above, apparently fans were making a big deal about the new Superman not having a hair swirl or wearing his underwear on the outside of his uniform. What does that have to do with the context of the story? It's just not getting as much attention because it's not a matter of race.
    But I'm pretty few of them are saying he shouldn't be playing Superman because his hair curl is messed up, or because his underwear isn't on the outside. Vs. the Spiderman situation where some people are pretty adamant that Jamie fox should not be playing Electro BECAUSE he's black, and not white. Yes, that feeling is derived from the desire to have everything in the comics match up, but its perpetuated only be a narrow ass mindset on what makes a character, where people believe that race is an important factor, for some misguided reason.

  2. #12
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    If someone complains about Electro being black in Spiderman 2, then it's hard to avoid thinking it's over race.

    Because he's not black at all in the movie. He's blue.



    So if they complain, "He's blue!" then it's not about race.
    If they complain, "He's black!" then I think it is.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If someone complains about Electro being black in Spiderman 2, then it's hard to avoid thinking it's over race.

    Because he's not black at all in the movie. He's blue.



    So if they complain, "He's blue!" then it's not about race.
    If they complain, "He's black!" then I think it is.
    I don't know anything about this character, but I googled Electro and Spiderman 2 and it also shows this picture so...it appears he undergoes some kind of transformation in the movie.



    Frankly, I don't care if he's pink. I'm not gonna see the movie anyway. If it was something I cared about, like a Ghostbusters sequel, and they re-cast Peter Venkman's character with an actor from another race, it would bother me. If they recast him at all, which they are talking about doing if he doesn't agree to do the film, it will bother me. Bill Murray is Peter Venkman. I'm an extreme traditionalist when it comes to things I love. If they tried to recast Winston Zeddemore as a white guy, I would be equally perturbed, because his character is black. He's black in the first two movies, he's black in the cartoon and he's black in the comics. It doesn't make sense to change it.

    In fact, there was a cartoon that deviated extremely from Ghostbusters, appropriately called Extreme Ghostbusters, and it is widely regarded in the fan community as shit because they changed so much. The producers seemed more concerned about making a political statement than being faithful to the previous material. There was a latino, a caucasion/female, an African American and a handicapped person. (not sure why they left out other nationalities) They also changed the uniforms, trap, proton pack and it was very poorly received by fans. At this point, I'm not even sure I want there to be a third movie because I fear they're going to change everything I love about the franchise. Hopefully, not the uniform, the equipment or the car. And for the love of God, please don't cast Seth Rogan or his crew of obnoxious fucktards.

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  4. #14
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    I'm not a comic fan, but I've noticed with comics that style and imagery is critical. After all, they aren't just crazy stories written in paragraph form, they are visual productions. You know what Hulk looks like not because you read about it, you saw it. You know that green, you know the ripped pants, you know the giant fists.

    I'm sure there is some percentage of comic purists who just want the movie to be exactly like the comic except in motion picture format and that's what they are complaining about.

    I'm also sure there are a bunch of racists who are freaking out because they are racist and here is something to have a fit over.

    If they say, got a Hispanic actor and then added some Spanish lines to the character's repertoire, that would be a change - he'd be someone else. If he's black but acts the part of the character without somehow "making him a black guy" (in mannerism or alteration of content, other characters alluding to it etc), whatever.

    If they rewrote the comic as a guy with a different background or behavior, I mean, it's a comic book movie, I don't really care, but that'd be odd in a way. It wouldn't be the same thing. I suppose they rewrite foreign films with local actors though...


    I mean they probably could make a 'modern' remake of Great Gatsby and make Gatsby a young Vietmanese guy living in Manhattan if they wanted. It'd be weird, but sure. But if they tried to take Gatsby and make him inexplicably Vietmanese living in 1930s Cape Cod (or wherever it was...Martha's vineyard?), it'd be just...wrong.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #15
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    After seeing Ray, I think Jamie Foxx can play whatever character he wants to play.

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    Actually, the Hulk was gray for awhile. And smarter.

    I actually don't much care. Man of Steel supes looked a little lot like Reeves' supes and people still complained. This argument is abstracted anyway. All we have to do is read a particular argument and it should be more clear the basis on which it is being made.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, the Hulk was gray for awhile. And smarter.

    I actually don't much care. Man of Steel supes looked a little lot like Reeves' supes and people still complained. This argument is abstracted anyway. All we have to do is read a particular argument and it should be more clear the basis on which it is being made.
    OK ok FINE! I don't know my comic book material. All I know is the green hulk is familiar and if they made him magenta I'd grab a pitchfork and burn down city hall.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    OK ok FINE! I don't know my comic book material. All I know is the green hulk is familiar and if they made him magenta I'd grab a pitchfork and burn down city hall.
    Actually, he was magenta in....

    ... oh j/k.

    EDIT:
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19

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    Mind you he is a villain, I'd have thought there'd have been more complaint about the fact that a black guy finally gets to star in a Spiderman film and he's a baddy.

    Black people were pretty much abscent from all the other Spiderman movies when I think about it, abscent largely from the comics too and even the comic book universe. With few exceptions, I say that because I'm a fan of Power Man and Iron Fist and both of those characters are hard to find in the comic books shops, power man was a pretty obvious attempt to get on the black power bandwagon while Iron Fist was the same for martial arts mania (and Iron Fist is a white, western, business guy!).

    If I try to think of the black guy super hero movies most of them have been black guys acting the fool or burn out, like Will Smith's movie (even if it was funny to see a superhero burn out), there was also the film depiction of the character who is almost like a black robo cop and wields a large iron hammer, cant recall the name even so what does that tell you, even though it was a lowish budget movie and had some dumb plotting and scripting of "life in tha ghetto", a little like Jackie Chan's "Rumble in the bronx".

    Also I just got through some mad stuff on Cracked.com about eighties movies, Rocky and Rambo, essentially being propaganda for white Americans down about vietnam, Muhammed Ali and black athletes, and a counter blast about how eighties sports movies made it right to hate on hard work and accomplishment through talent.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Mind you he is a villain, I'd have thought there'd have been more complaint about the fact that a black guy finally gets to star in a Spiderman film and he's a baddy.
    Hmm. Good point there.

    Black people were pretty much abscent from all the other Spiderman movies when I think about it, abscent largely from the comics too and even the comic book universe. With few exceptions, I say that because I'm a fan of Power Man and Iron Fist and both of those characters are hard to find in the comic books shops, power man was a pretty obvious attempt to get on the black power bandwagon while Iron Fist was the same for martial arts mania (and Iron Fist is a white, western, business guy!).
    I don't remember a lot of black heroes either. There was also Black Panther.

    Remember those two villains that were kind of doing a riff on the old Rosie Greer / ray Milland "horror" flick called The Man With Two Heads? These two guys were escaped convicts on the run and they got chained together by some alien energy-charged metallic cable -- I think they went by Hammer and Anvil. Of course, like in the old movie, they were both kind of racist but now were stuck in proximity to each other and had to work together. (I think they took on The Hulk.)

    And then there is Storm from the New X-Men in the mid/late 70's, who was essentially an african princess/goddess.

    Anyway, the reason a lot of those superfolks created early were white, was because the culture itself was kind of slanted. That's why nowadays shaking it up and making it more reflective of culture doesn't seem like a bad idea. More of those characters should have been black to start with, honestly.

    Which reminds of the largest casting coup in regards to white-> black characters: Nick Fury.

    Was there much complaining going on when Samuel L. Jackson took over the role?

    If I try to think of the black guy super hero movies most of them have been black guys acting the fool or burn out, like Will Smith's movie (even if it was funny to see a superhero burn out)
    Hancock was pretty awesome, I just wish the second half of the movie had been as decent as the first.

    there was also the film depiction of the character who is almost like a black robo cop and wields a large iron hammer, cant recall the name
    Do you mean "Steel" and it starred Shaq or something?

    Also I just got through some mad stuff on Cracked.com about eighties movies, Rocky and Rambo, essentially being propaganda for white Americans down about vietnam, Muhammed Ali and black athletes, and a counter blast about how eighties sports movies made it right to hate on hard work and accomplishment through talent.
    I have to give a kudos to FIrst Blood, actually, and Stallone -- apparently Pacino had wanted to start, but he wanted the script rewritten so that John Rambo could go kind of bugnuts later in the movie. It would have been a very different story than the one we got, where John Rambo could actually evoke some sympathy as a down on his lucky vet drifter who got ridden by another white bad-ass local sheriff. I don't think the movie would hold much interest, as just as another bugnuts movie.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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