Man of Steel

[MetalMoon]

I heard that Man of Steel is a Superman film for non-Superman fans. Which would appeal to me, I guess. Might even get me into DC a little more. I'm gonna withhold all judgement before I see it tomorrow.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Not really. I'm a lifelong fan of the character. They got the essence of the character right. They just went a little overboard and lost sight of what they set out to accomplish. It's Batman Begins sharply interrupted by a Roland Emmerich flick (and equally as retarded to boot).

90% of the movies problems are purely technical.

 

[Totenkindly]

Okay, the gist is that I actually really enjoyed this movie.

However, there's a number of caveats that go with this. (and I'm trying to be as general as possible, or talk just about things people already know about superman, to avoid spoilers.)

1. The only way I can understand that 43% of RT reviewers said this was worse than it was better (i.e., yes or no on it) is that it's different in tone than the other superman movies. I think this is why someone else here has said they heard, "It's a good movie, if you're not a superman fan." It's definitely a little different in tone, and grittier, than the supermen movies you have seen in the past, including the first two. But I still think they got the essence of the character correct. For me personally, the tone of the original two movies was a little too sweet and campy for me, even when I was 20-30 years younger. This treatment seemed a little more realistic in some ways.

2. I happen to like smackfests between two invulnerable characters. If you do not, or you find them boring, then you will dislike parts of this movie. I think the fight scenes were pretty kick-ass in terms of the "knockbacks" and prop smashing. The very last fight in the movie seems extra and like it could have been skipped (it seemed a little too much when it started), except it sets up a very big decision for Superman in terms of characterization.

3. The secondary characters were decent but I wish we had gotten a little more depth and nuance in the writing, in regards to them. Just a little deeper, please. The most fleshed out were Superman's two dads, and I think they were well-cast even if I didn't need to see Russell Crowe go all gladiator for a bit. This interplay is very important, and Clark is very much a blend of his two fathers, who represent his two heritages. it's a tribute to the movie that Clark actually tries to find a way to honor BOTH of his fathers (right before Father's Day? ha!) with his choices in the movie. I think the overall casting in the movie was pretty decent. It was nice to see Diane Lane in an extended role, even if she could have been written better.

4. This movie really focuses on Superman being a child of two worlds in a way that many of the other movies did not -- especially because in this movie, he is being pitted between the needs of those two worlds. As an adopted child, he's still trying to figure out where he came from, so that he can figure out who he IS and what to do with his life. He's never felt like he fits in, and that people will be scared of him -- he'll always be an alien. Then he happens to discover his heritage, and embraces his past, right before a bunch of people from his true home show up.... and they turn out to be asshats who don't want to compromise on the living space. Now Clark is forced to make some hard choices between the adopted family he never felt he belonged to vs the asshole bio family whose values he does not share. This dilemma and this theme permeates the movie. How does Clark resolve it?

5. There were themes in the movie that are very relevant to me, but might not be to other viewers. I have raised children, and I have adopted a child. So I was really choked up whenever there were scenes with either set of Clark's parents, because I understand what sacrifices they were making and what their hopes and dreams and fears for their child would be. I also could really empathize with Clark and what decisions he had to make, in terms of his loyalties.

6. The #1 reason I liked the movie is because I believe in Clark. I understood his struggles; I could see the choices he had to make; I understood why he made the decisions he did; and you can see how earnestly and passionately he fight, giving it everything he has, for the causes he believes in. The "S stands for hope" line you've seen in the trailer might sound kind of goofy, but it's actually true: When I watched Superman in this movie, I felt hope.

A number of us applauded at the end, when the credits started. That doesn't happen much in a theater, but it did today. I felt like the movie was more than the sum of its flawed parts, when all was said and done

And, oh yeah, the Zimmer score was definitely a step up for this.

Speaking of The Dark Knight:
Bring on The World's Finest with Bale and Cavill.
Highest grossing picture of all time--calling it now.

Who do you think could write and/or direct this, once they kick-start it?

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Super-powered smackfests aside: It was kinda amusing to see Michael Shannon play vertical leap frog up a 50 story skyscraper.

 

[The Ü™]

I'm currently sitting in the theater waiting for this thing to start.

A few rows down from me is a mother with her infant child.

I'm sure this will end well.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm currently sitting in the theater waiting for this thing to start.

A few rows down from me is a mother with her infant child.

I'm sure this will end well.

Shite. Sorry to hear that. At least the movie will be so loud that you might not be able to hear the baby scream.
The last movie I went to see, a mom and four young kids sat behind me. Was it for Jurassic Park? I don't remember, but I actually just got up and moved. The kids were already loud and I knew they'd crap their pants for some of the movie and didn't want to deal with it.

 

[Totenkindly]

Super-powered smackfests aside: It was kinda amusing to see Michael Shannon play vertical leap frog up a 50 story skyscraper.

That effin' rocked!

I mean, he coulda flown; but the leapfrog (and Michael Shannon) was worth it.

Shannon is such a nutcase.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

I'm currently sitting in the theater waiting for this thing to start.

A few rows down from me is a mother with her infant child.

I'm sure this will end well.

Sucks! That shit happened to me when I saw Batman last year.

As for Batman/Supes crossover:

I choose Paul Dini and Bruce Timm as writers. Non-negotiable.
If it is to be a gritty Bat-centric affair, give the reins to Fincher.

Otherwise, I'll have to shrug.

 

[The Ü™]

My oh my oh my, where do I begin? I cried more than the screaming infants in the theater. I knew the movie was doomed when John Williams' score was eliminated, but this movie went far beyond that level of badness.

Its only saving grace was some nice-looking imagery. Perhaps Zack Snyder should've stuck to rebooting the Green Lantern picture of a few years ago, because that franchise couldn't have sunk much lower had anyone tinkered with it. But God, leave Superman alone!

Oh and Morpheus needs to put the fork down.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Okay, the gist is that I actually really enjoyed this movie.

However, there's a number of caveats that go with this. (and I'm trying to be as general as possible, or talk just about things people already know about superman, to avoid spoilers.)

1. The only way I can understand that 43% of RT reviewers said this was worse than it was better (i.e., yes or no on it) is that it's different in tone than the other superman movies. I think this is why someone else here has said they heard, "It's a good movie, if you're not a superman fan." It's definitely a little different in tone, and grittier, than the supermen movies you have seen in the past, including the first two. But I still think they got the essence of the character correct. For me personally, the tone of the original two movies was a little too sweet and campy for me, even when I was 20-30 years younger. This treatment seemed a little more realistic in some ways.

So the criticism is basically that it's not a Christopher Reeve superman movie? I think it was pretty obvious from the trailers and the inolvement of Nolan that it wasn't going to be a love letter to the Christopher Reeve series like Returns (which I liked, but I digress).

Maybe I'll go see it after all. Call me crazy, but I always found Superman to be a more relatable character than Batman.

The fact that they focus on him as an outsider is also something that interests me.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think Superman probably is more relatable in terms of life experience; all of us have felt like outsiders, all of us have tried to be normal and have to balance that with standing out to behave in extraordinary ways. Superman also is from the middle class at best, his life growing up is very "American." (He even says that in the movie ("General, I grew up in Kansas. How much more American can I be?")

Few of us have had our parents murdered, and few of us are upper-class billionaires. Batman is "cooler' on some ways, but not necessarily more relatable.

Superman's always had a lighter touch in American cinema and isn't touched by darkness, at least in the TV/movie media. And this was also Reeve's iconic role, and he is somewhat of a legend due to his struggles from being paralyzed and from his expressed character. I have trouble believing those things aren't playing into some of the critical response. Note how much higher the userbase response is.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

It was a completely unnecessary picture.
No new territory had been explored.
It has all been done before--and better.

The original and remake share the same subtextual DNA.

Man torn between two worlds, searching for a place in this life, etc.

This was SUPERMAN: ZEITGEIST, complete with predictable Nolan "grittiness", Michael Bay-style 'splosions, yawn-inducing exposition and cartoonish CGI, tied with a pretty pink bow to set up another cash cow franchise.

Superman deserves better than this. ALOT better.

 

[Totenkindly]

It's funny to watch how your opinions shift from post to post.

To be honest, I have a really difficult time imagining what a "good" Superman movie would look like. i don't think anyone here could come up with one that would meet the ideal, if they actually had to write it. It's much easier to criticize the ones that don't fit that ambiguous ideal.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

2. I happen to like smackfests between two invulnerable characters. If you do not, or you find them boring, then you will dislike parts of this movie. I think the fight scenes were pretty kick-ass in terms of the "knockbacks" and prop smashing. The very last fight in the movie seems extra and like it could have been skipped (it seemed a little too much when it started), except it sets up a very big decision for Superman in terms of characterization.

That could be a problem for me.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

It's funny to watch how your opinions shift from post to post.

I'm bipolar, probs.

To be honest, I have a really difficult time imagining what a "good" Superman movie would look like. i don't think anyone here could come up with one that would meet the ideal, if they actually had to write it. It's much easier to criticize the ones that don't fit that ambiguous ideal.

There isn't an "ideal" Superman...that wasn't my point.

I expected a Batman Begins-level of "quality" at least.
The movie was soulless and played on shallow emotions.
And there wasn't anything new (except Super 'splosions).

And if you gave me a $225 million budget, I'd do better than this effort.

MUCH better.

 

[Totenkindly]

And if you gave me a $225 million budget, I'd do better than this effort.

MUCH better.

I think that's a bit exaggerated, if only that you have no idea how to put a movie production together. (I don't either.) And of course, I asked for specifics of what you would do, and all you have provided is yet another, "It just sucked, I could do so much better" comment. Yeah. Whatever.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I just haven't yet seen any actual constructive ideas of what could be done, and I'm more curious to hear what people would actually DO in a specific sense. Show me the money, you know? Not just talk about the money. A lot of us sound like the fat beer guzzlers on the Lazy Boy hurling insults at the Monday night football game about what a professional athlete with much more experience and training should have done.... lol.

That could be a problem for me.

Oh, magic!

We need to get your violent impulses flowing.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

I am typing from a phone right now. If you cant understand that, then yer beyon the point of reason.

All I will say about Duck's version of Superman is this:

1. Gorilla Grodd is the bad guy, I bet

And

2. Superman rips a guys head off for no reason.

 

[Cellmold]

Make sure your friend wears the cape.

Balls to that, he's wearing the underpants on the outside.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Balls to that, he's wearing the underpants on the outside.

Qualiman? I hope the Beets contribute a song to the closing credits. I'm guessing it will be "Killer Tofu", since they don't appear to have any other songs.

 

[Cellmold]

Qualiman? I hope the Beets contribute a song to the closing credits. I'm guessing it will be "Killer Tofu", since they don't appear to have any other songs.