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Thread: Man of Steel

  1. #61
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, Edna Mode's admonition to not wear the cape still stands, unless you just REALLY have to make a fashion statement at cost of looking like a damn fool when your enemy gets the upper hand.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #62

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    Parts of this movie felt like they belonged to a very good movie, which this was decidedly not.

    It was so disappointing because there were some great things about it. The acting was uniformly good, especially Amy Adams. I liked the take on Clark as a drifter running away from himself and not yet ready to accept his dual identity. I liked the Jesus allegory, which has always been there with this character but never as strongly as in this movie. I liked Clark's divided loyalties and how no matter his choice, something had to be lost for something to be gained. I liked that parts of it seemed to really aspire to be more than the usual superhero movie.

    Unfortunately, it was all undone by the same things that undo lots of big action movies - inane, too-long fight scenes; superfluous VFX-for-VFX-sake setpieces; muddy, poorly-explained movie science with no internal logic, and a script that seemed to be cobbled together in editorial after the movie was shot. It feels like someone had a vision for the good version of this movie and lost a power struggle. Not sure it would have been Snyder based on his history, but it might have been Nolan or Goyer.

    I would have shortened the Krypton portion of the movie. Even though it was good, it was more than we needed. I would have told the story in more of a chronological order; I appreciate time shifting when it's warranted, but the flashbacks here served no narrative purpose. I think the story of Mr. Kent's and Clark's relationship and its effect on Clark's behaviors and attitudes would have been better served to be told early in the movie so his evolution hits a better emotional beat later on. I would have found a better way to serve the story than to have Jor-El pull an Obi-Wan, which felt cheap and hacky. I would have eliminated a lot of the fighting; it was so redundant I wanted to scream. The movie needed action and fighting of course, but not to the point of exhaustion. I wanted an acknowledgement of the folly of Superman and Zod physically fighting and I would have had a victory decided on cunning instead; it would have allowed the human half of Clark to be the reason for his victory, which would have been immensely more satisfying and appropriate. Certainly more satisfying than the utterly ridiculous way their battle was decided.

    What was good about the movie lost to what was bad about it. It was like a fine dining restaurant that puts hamburgers on the menu. It wussed out because it didn't trust itself.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  3. #63
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    i agree with the comments about Krypton and Jor-El... just too much of it, it needed to be pared down. And Jor-El was supposed to be "head scientist" and instead he's acting like a battle overlord.


    EDIT:

    I gotta say, it was a little unsettling to see Clark in a sweatshirt/hoodie in the cemetary. It reminded me way too much of this clip from season #1 of Heroes.

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #64
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    When will the Hollywood entertainment industry understand that when it comes to science-fiction, what makes a movie memorable is not the shallow predictable action but the scenario and the deep questions it asks to any man or woman?

    I do not think Hollywood has really understood or digested the success and intelligence of real hard SF movies like "Moon" or "Source code" (bless be the son of David Bowie!). For them, these movies are anomalies or glitches.

    And I keep wondering why a movie should have a budget bigger than the total annual income of an average African country. It just proves how insane, decadent and indecent our world has become. Entertaining, entertaining, entertaining... Panem et circenses (Bread and Circus games), just like in ancient Rome.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    When will the Hollywood entertainment industry understand that when it comes to science-fiction, what makes a movie memorable is not the shallow predictable action but the scenario and the deep questions it asks to any man or woman?

    I do not think Hollywood has really understood or digested the success and intelligence of real hard SF movies like "Moon" or "Source code" (bless be the son of David Bowie!). For them, these movies are anomalies or glitches.
    Give lectures much?

    I appreciate Moon and Source Code (in fact, the latter is a favorite of mine, although I'd prefer the movie to end about 7 minutes sooner), but I don't have an issue with a range of movies being available to serve different purposes. Not every movie has to be Solaris.

    As far as the budget goes, that's something to think about. Although it's also keeping an awful lot of people here employed, and if you ask people to cough up $10/weekend to fund some African country, I doubt you'll see any money.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    When will the Hollywood entertainment industry understand that when it comes to science-fiction, what makes a movie memorable is not the shallow predictable action but the scenario and the deep questions it asks to any man or woman?
    ...Not exactly Hollywoods fault.
    Studios attempt this all of the time.

    Doesn't turn out profitable for them, either.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    When will the Hollywood entertainment industry understand that when it comes to science-fiction, what makes a movie memorable is not the shallow predictable action but the scenario and the deep questions it asks to any man or woman?

    I do not think Hollywood has really understood or digested the success and intelligence of real hard SF movies like "Moon" or "Source code" (bless be the son of David Bowie!). For them, these movies are anomalies or glitches.
    Because the movie industry is not a philanthropic endeavor. As fascinating a movie as it was, "Moon" made about five cents. I'm not sure what definition of "success" you are using.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

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    Don't read if you haven't seen the movie, since it's a debate over a crucial movie moment that is also a large spoiler. (The argument is over whether or not Supes' character has been tarnished by one of his choices.)

    http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-...154837945.html

    BTW, if I were writing MoS II, this would be the first plot point I'd scribble down on a card, to work into the story -- Supes' grappling with what he did, and trying to work through it. I agree that it should have ramifications for the character, although I seem to be far more forgiving than some others (like Mark Waid) were regarding it having happened at all. It was sensible enough within the storyline as filmed, they would have had to set up things differently to avoid it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Don't read if you haven't seen the movie, since it's a debate over a crucial movie moment that is also a large spoiler. (The argument is over whether or not Supes' character has been tarnished by one of his choices.)
    I never knew that was supposed to be such a big part of the Superman character. I didn't think twice about it while watching the movie and didn't realize it was controversial until reading this. In the context of the movie, I think it was a pretty necessary choice.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I never knew that was supposed to be such a big part of the Superman character. I didn't think twice about it while watching the movie and didn't realize it was controversial until reading this. In the context of the movie, I think it was a pretty necessary choice.
    I didn't notice it either (and no one here mentioned it), although once I saw the article, I was like, "Oh. Yeah. I guess I should have expected this."

    I had the same response you did. I saw it as the decision of someone with little experience in those kinds of situations so far (so he couldn't foresee it coming and avoid it), in a situation he was unable to change in any other way, making the best choice of the two he had. Life is very much about learning to make the best (sometimes flawed) decisions you can in the moment, and then working through the ramifications.

    I also think it's easier for someone who is as powerful as Superman is to adhere to a certain standard of idealism that lesser beings working within the realistic confines of their own limitations can't as easily entertain. This particular situation was one where Superman himself was severely challenged.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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