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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Star Wars is an interesting one. It comes across as Sci-fi but it's actually fantasy. It even sign-posts it at the start:

    "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away..."

    Fantasy seeks to connect with Fairy Tales and the past (even if it's set in the present or future). It often has a romantic/idealistic element, about honour, justice and morality etc. In many ways it's escapism to a place/time when things were simpler and problems could be solved with a sword or a pure heart. It is a world were things are easily (or intuitively) understandable and is about maintaining or bringing back balance to the world - even with magical elements, there are clear limitations and prices to pay.

    Sci-fi, however, is typically a commentary on the present. It reflects, challenges and warns about contemporary society, politics, morals, thoughts, attitudes etc through more oblique, and perhaps more extreme, depictions of them. Technology and futuristic scientific advances are often part of it, but this is merely a device to demonstrate what the present world could/would be like if uninhibited by technical restrictions.

    I concur, I'd put it at at fantasy a dozen times over before science fiction.

    Though it should be said that much of fantasy can be a lampoon of modern culture. Stephen King comes to mind. A lot of crafty thought can be drawn between the Senate's tranference of power to Palpatine and our (Americans) authoritative power given to high office after 9/11, even.

    I'm not sure how much I've cared for the thought expressed in this thread that a required theme of science fiction is political motivation. I think it is closer to fantasy's realm, or at the very base, foundation for an engaging plot regardless of theme.

  2. #32
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    It's pretty much the difference between 5w4s (fantasy) and 5w6s (sci-fi); 5w4s like things relating to their own inner reality more, whereas 5w6s prefer exploring the cosmological world.

  3. #33
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Though it should be said that much of fantasy can be a lampoon of modern culture. Stephen King comes to mind. A lot of crafty thought can be drawn between the Senate's tranference of power to Palpatine and our (Americans) authoritative power given to high office after 9/11, even.
    Yes, this was the most interesting thing in the Star Wars prequels for me, as it was done so well. One of the few redeeming qualities.

    I'm not sure how much I've cared for the thought expressed in this thread that a required theme of science fiction is political motivation. I think it is closer to fantasy's realm, or at the very base, foundation for an engaging plot regardless of theme.
    There can be political motivation in fantasy (just look at Game of Thrones) but it doesn't tend to reflect much on modern society as much. In general, I think Sci-fi puts forward more of an argument and fantasy is more value driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    It's pretty much the difference between 5w4s (fantasy) and 5w6s (sci-fi); 5w4s like things relating to their own inner reality more, whereas 5w6s prefer exploring the cosmological world.
    I agree.

    5w4s have such an interest in fantasy values (eg. honour, chivalry, idealism, destiny) and have more of a whimsical and fantastical bent. 5w6 are drawn to intellectual debate, and are more interested to the tangible, 'rational' world and are more grounded by the bounds of science (and believability). The 4 wing tends to encourage exploration of the mystical, hidden meanings and insights, whereas the 6s leans towards to interest in the future and what is foreseeable.
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  4. #34
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    Guess again, poindexters.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    In general, I think Sci-fi puts forward more of an argument and fantasy is more value driven.

    Ah, this line really struck a chord. Interesting.

  6. #36
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    I love both. Generally, I just see one as a past-based genre but as if Merlin and magic actually did exist, thus leaving all possibilities open to the imagination, and sci-fi as a future-based genre which naturally brings to life imaginative possibilities.

    Again, I love both. It's the imaginative possibilities both bring to the table.
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  7. #37
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    hypothetically one could extend the MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness - which normally goes from hard sci fi to soft sci fi - all the way beyond sci fi to include fantasy within it's spectrum.

    that's being said, i think the difference is deeper: while both can explore hypotheticals of the human conditions all while mentally masturbating to the exploration of ideas for ideas sake, the fantasy fiction often explores the romanticism of past eras, while the sci fi / futuristic fiction aims to be applicable in order to ask where are we going, what might be out there, and other questions that fantasy doesn't.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    hypothetically one could extend the MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness - which normally goes from hard sci fi to soft sci fi - all the way beyond sci fi to include fantasy within it's spectrum.

    that's being said, i think the difference is deeper: while both can explore hypotheticals of the human conditions all while mentally masturbating to the exploration of ideas for ideas sake, the fantasy fiction often explores the romanticism of past eras, while the sci fi / futuristic fiction aims to be applicable in order to ask where are we going, what might be out there, and other questions that fantasy doesn't.
    Then there is Warhammer, which is just Grimdark.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Then there is Warhammer, which is just Grimdark.
    there's also princes of amber, which might as well be a fantasy string theory novel... neither really try to look at current society and ask where we are going.

    compare that to the torturer apprentice, which had swordfights and giants and is all happening on a backwards near medieval earth, but does a very interesting job exploring the question of social entropy.

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