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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default The Matrix Vs. Matrix Reloaded

    It seems to be the consensus all over the internet that The Matrix is better than Matrix: Reloaded. But I haven't seen any really good reason why. The Matrix has the advantage of being first, thus it is unique and original. Hell, it was mind-blowing. The Matrix: Reloaded - been there, done that.

    But Matrix: Reloaded contained some interesting concepts, not just the Agent Smith "virus" either. It tells us that good requires evil, and vice versa.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think Matrix Reloaded has a plot and settings that make considerably less sense in light of what we learned in the first film, and are generally more juvenile and hard to believe. From a financial perspective it did not surprise me that a sequel was made to The Matrix, but from a plot perspective there was no good opening for a sequel. Neo was The One, he figured it out, end of story. Instead we get a sequel that involves people doing things that seem totally unnecessary within the matrix.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think Matrix Reloaded has a plot and settings that make considerably less sense in light of what we learned in the first film, and are generally more juvenile and hard to believe. From a financial perspective it did not surprise me that a sequel was made to The Matrix, but from a plot perspective there was no good opening for a sequel. Neo was The One, he figured it out, end of story. Instead we get a sequel that involves people doing things that seem totally unnecessary within the matrix.
    And nobody cares about Zion's fate? Was it just the first film's MacGuffin?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It seems to be the consensus all over the internet that The Matrix is better than Matrix: Reloaded. But I haven't seen any really good reason why. The Matrix has the advantage of being first, thus it is unique and original. Hell, it was mind-blowing. The Matrix: Reloaded - been there, done that.

    But Matrix: Reloaded contained some interesting concepts, not just the Agent Smith "virus" either. It tells us that good requires evil, and vice versa.
    I'm actually a really big fan of Reloaded.

    I think it's a mistake for people to compare it to The Matrix movie, which is a different kind of picture.

    The Matrix trilogy actually is in three pieces: Birth, Prime of Life, Decline/Death. The first movie is Neo being born, coming to awareness. Thus he is learning the nature of the Matrix and determining his general role in it.

    Reloaded is Neo in the prime of his life, the peak of his strength. It is a very "active" movie. It is very linear, too, and plot-driven. It probably has the most action (in the Neo line) of all three movies and a strong through-line. Here he is grappling directly with his fate -- how to specifically fulfill his destiny.

    (I think the best "fight" where Neo is at the height of his power is the Foyer Fight, with the Merovingian's cronies. He "shows some skill" and pretty effortlessly takes down an entire group of practiced fighters in a well-choreographed sequence.)

    Reloaded is where we see him tasting the hint of decline and death that eventually he must embrace in Revolutions. He tastes it (and he has his first fight that he essentially loses AKA doesn't win -- i.e., against the Smiths), but he is still powerful enough to hold defeat/death off (bringing Trinity back, preserving love for just one more day, etc.)

    In its day, the highway chase was the best chase scene out there. I think it's still worth watching, even if there's some obvious computer sim at times (like with the one jumping agent). I love how it keeps turning the screws tighter, even when you think it's gone as tight as possible.

    I think some people thought the end of Reloaded was dry and stilted. Maybe they're right. I just know I loved it. The entire movie is this very energetic, flowing action sequence and focus on plot. Then, suddenly, right when you think Neo has triumphed... everything STOPs. The Architect's speech is MEANT to be a slap in the face and throw up a huge roadblock, figuratively AND literally. It's meant to be confusing; the Architect is meant to seem overly complicated and alien to human thought process. But it's one of the greatest "deconstructionist" scenes in cinema; Vader's, "Luke I am your father" seems half-assed in comparison.

    Neo thought he was rebelling against the system, and in the end he doing exactly what he was designed to do the entire time. He is just one more cog (albeit a more important one) in the huge complex machine.

    Anyway, there is a lot of philosophical exposition going on, even during the Merovingian sequence, and then the Persephone sequence following. M talks about the use of power, how knowledge brings power, and how Neo is just busting around doing stuff without any reason why, and thus he has no power. And M is right, Neo has no real power to do anything until the end of the movie, when he finds out his role. Ironically, that marks the decline of his power. The more he can make choices that are educated, the more ineffectual his power seems to become (starting in the last movie).

    The conversation with Persephone is like the deal with the devil, and is the first "whiff of death" that Neo and Trinity experience; she makes them confront their own inevitable mortality. That scene was very well-directed.

    Reloaded also has the last appearance of the version of the Oracle that I loved so much. It's sad that she died, and sad that she could not reprise her role in the last film, although they tried to incorporate it into the story.

    EDIT: I think if the Wachowskis had FINISHED well, they'd have gotten less crap from people. It's unfortunate that Revolutions kind of fumbled the ball. Much of the dialogue felt contrived and neatly packaged, the very ending of the film felt tacked on, some of the scenes seemed redundant. The theme of "death" resonated strongly with me -- if you watch Neo, he undertakes the traditional hero's journey

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I really liked all those things about Reloaded. I just wish Revolutions had followed up on it more. The plot of revolutions was so simply I was able to deduce it from the trailer. They introduced really interesting ideas in reloaded, and then didn't do anything with them in the conclusion. By the end of the trilogy, nothing has really changed from the way it was in the beginning. Maybe this was deliberate because it was supposed to represent the cycle of rebirth in Buddhism and Hinduism, but it doesn't really make for an interesting story.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    The Matrix series is more philosophical than average movie-goers will give it credit for. But they don't want to be enlightened, only entertained. Neo's eventual demise was not entertaining, and it wasn't meant to be. Instead, it is aesthetically pleasing. Death is a natural part of life; even heroes have to die although they intend to die fighting for a cause if they have to.

    In comparison, a less tasteful movie is Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2. This is a bloody tale of revenge. The blood in these movies is so highly exaggerated that it becomes commonplace, meaningless. Notice, however, that in Matrix: Reloaded, any sign of blood has at least symbolic meaning. When Neo's hand is cut by a sword, the blood symbolizes the fact that he is still human.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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    The Matrix trilogy is cherished in my mind. It has provided much thought over the years.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I really liked all those things about Reloaded. I just wish Revolutions had followed up on it more. The plot of revolutions was so simply I was able to deduce it from the trailer. They introduced really interesting ideas in reloaded, and then didn't do anything with them in the conclusion. By the end of the trilogy, nothing has really changed from the way it was in the beginning. Maybe this was deliberate because it was supposed to represent the cycle of rebirth in Buddhism and Hinduism, but it doesn't really make for an interesting story.
    Yeah, I felt like a lot of their "bang for the buck" went into the war at Zion with their stupid "cool" human/robot gunner things. And the movie especially in the latter half ended up being so formulaic I almost could imagine scrolling segues like George Lucas', and the panel layout in the comic book adaptation: "Oh, that little quip would be in the last panel of the page before the cut scene." Urrrrggg....

    The story actually did continue, and a bit different than before, in the Matrix Online MMO... and the whole premise was there was an uneasy truce between the humans and the machine, so things weren't ALL the same. As far as we know. *snicker*
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    In comparison, a less tasteful movie is Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2. This is a bloody tale of revenge. The blood in these movies is so highly exaggerated that it becomes commonplace, meaningless. Notice, however, that in Matrix: Reloaded, any sign of blood has at least symbolic meaning. When Neo's hand is cut by a sword, the blood symbolizes the fact that he is still human.
    Again, apples and oranges. Kill Bills are very different movies (and among some of my favorites... but certainly not for the philosophy discussions). I mean, Tarantino specifically MADE the gore so over the top that the audience would adjust to it -- and also it DID have a meaning... that revenge results in an endlessly bloody mess for everyone. In fact, in the discussions I've heard of the potential Kill Bill 3, this would be the theme: It's years later, and Nikki (the daughter of one of the gang members, where Kiddo kills her right in front of the girl) comes back to find her... a situation predicted by the Bride at the end of that scene. ("When you grow up, if you still feel raw about things, come find me...")

    You can't go around killing people, even if you feel it's "even steven," and not trigger more bloodshed. But it's very easy in the midst of the carnage to overlook all the blood, if you're too used to it.

    Again, not heady philosophy, but I think the comparison isn't really that great. Blood is tied thematically to Kill Bill, and it's only marginally describing the state of a character in Reloaded.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Again, apples and oranges. Kill Bills are very different movies (and among some of my favorites... but certainly not for the philosophy discussions). I mean, Tarantino specifically MADE the gore so over the top that the audience would adjust to it -- and also it DID have a meaning... that revenge results in an endlessly bloody mess for everyone. In fact, in the discussions I've heard of the potential Kill Bill 3, this would be the theme: It's years later, and Nikki (the daughter of one of the gang members, where Kiddo kills her right in front of the girl) comes back to find her... a situation predicted by the Bride at the end of that scene. ("When you grow up, if you still feel raw about things, come find me...")

    You can't go around killing people, even if you feel it's "even steven," and not trigger more bloodshed. But it's very easy in the midst of the carnage to overlook all the blood, if you're too used to it.

    Again, not heady philosophy, but I think the comparison isn't really that great. Blood is tied thematically to Kill Bill, and it's only marginally describing the state of a character in Reloaded.
    The fact that Neo can bleed, thus he is still human, gave more confidence to the Merovingian's baddies.

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