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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Default The Mandarin in Iron Man 3: Your opinion? **contains spoilers**

    Before I say anything in this thread, I will say that if you have not seen Iron Man 3 yet, don't post in this thread or even look at it. If you click on the big spoiler box, and haven't seen the movie, it will practically butcher the movie for you, SO DON'T CLICK IT! You have been warned.


    As you can see the Mandarin pissed me off, what was your opinion of how they portrayed "The Mandarin" in the movie?

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    My opinion of the treatment of the Mandarin:

    From a detached and iconoclastic POV, I thought it was hilarious and ballsy -- a twist that just about no one would anticipate. I do admire that.

    However, from a narrative POV, I think it diminished the movie and ensured that it would not be one that held much meaning for me. That's the problem with crap like that -- very unique, but detracting from the dramatic arc. The movie now seems gimmicky rather than meaningful and is essentially really just one long action sequence.

    Basically, I think this should have been something that came up during brainstorming, everyone gets a laugh --- MAYBE they include it as a Deleted Scene on the Director's Cut -- but otherwise you go with the dramatic undercurrent you've been setting up. It kind of destroyed anywhere meaningful the movie meant to go.

    I think it's rather like the ending of the book Hannibal (and the movie, which closely followed the book to its detriment). It was amusing and ballsy, unbelievably so... but it also totally destroyed the possibility of taking the movie seriously.

    I have to say that, regardless, Ben Kingsley is a fine actor and played his parts perfectly. I admire an actor who has the capacity for high drama but is so versatile that he can also handle any shift in style you throw at him.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My opinion of the treatment of the Mandarin:

    From a detached and iconoclastic POV, I thought it was hilarious and ballsy -- a twist that just about no one would anticipate. I do admire that.

    However, from a narrative POV, I think it diminished the movie and ensured that it would not be one that held much meaning for me. That's the problem with crap like that -- very unique, but detracting from the dramatic arc. The movie now seems gimmicky rather than meaningful and is essentially really just one long action sequence.

    Basically, I think this should have been something that came up during brainstorming, everyone gets a laugh --- MAYBE they include it as a Deleted Scene on the Director's Cut, but otherwise you go with the dramatic undercurrent you've been setting up. It kind of destroyed anywhere meaningful the movie meant to go.

    I think it's rather like the ending of the book Hannibal (and the movie, which closely followed the book to its detriment). It was amusing and ballsy, unbelievably so... but it also totally destroyed the possibility of taking the movie seriously.

    I have to say that, regardless, Ben Kingsley is a fine actor and played his parts perfectly. I admire an actor who has the capacity for high drama but is so versatile that he can also handle any shift in style you throw at him.
    I think that I would have enjoyed the movie much more if they didn't include the Mandarin at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I think that I would have enjoyed the movie much more if they didn't include the Mandarin at all.
    I think I feel that way as well.

    And you also note, importantly, that the Mandarin is an established Marvel villain and one of Iron Man's most dangerous foes, so to fuck with that in the way they did is just going to irk a lot of people...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think I feel that way as well.

    And you also note, importantly, that the Mandarin is an established Marvel villain and one of Iron Man's most dangerous foes, so to fuck with that in the way they did is just going to irk a lot of people...
    He isn't just "a villain" he is THE VILLAIN. The Mandarin is Iron Man's arch nemesis. He is literally the equivalent to Lex Luthor to Superman, The Joker to Batman, Red Skull to Captain America, Sinestro to Green Lantern. This was a big deal to play such a cruel joke with such an important character. In fact, the writers originally were going to make the Mandarin the main villain in the first movie but they later dropped that idea. Then, they later made a public announcement that the Mandarin was going to be the villain in the second movie, but it was later dropped again. Finally, they did make him the villain in the 3rd movie but made him into a fucking screen actor! The writers should be shot in the nuts for doing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    He isn't just "a villain" he is THE VILLAIN. The Mandarin is Iron Man's arch nemesis. He is literally the equivalent to Lex Luthor to Superman, The Joker to Batman, Red Skull to Captain America, Sinestro to Green Lantern. This was a big deal to play such a cruel joke with such an important character. In fact, the writers originally were going to make the Mandarin the main villain in the first movie but they later dropped that idea. Then, they later made a public announcement that the Mandarin was going to be the villain in the second movie, but it was later dropped again. Finally, they did make him the villain in the 3rd movie but made him into a fucking screen actor! The writers should be shot in the nuts for doing this.
    It honestly just sounds like one big joke.

    ... although I thought joking/jerking-around was the domain of Batman's arch-nemesis...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It honestly just sounds like one big joke.

    ... although I thought joking/jerking-around was the domain of Batman's arch-nemesis...
    It wasn't a joke to me. They just pissed me off.

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    Finished watching it several hours ago. Prepare to break out the reading glasses.

    On an intellectual level, I actually enjoyed this "twist." The filmmakers deliberately drew attention to the racism connotations that this outdated character inhabits, while mocking the white-bread-tastes-better-than-the-rest demeanor America is notorious for. It also tackled the big elephant in the room (media fear control tactics!) and had massive balls to come to the conclusion it did.

    On a narrative level? It doesn't cut the mustard. It's an insult (and not only to comic book fundamentalists, either).


    In a way, this should have been the cerebral comic book movie to rival The Dark Knight. Ultimately, what it boils down to is CONFLICT of idealogy...and that was essentially what made The Dark Knight the crowning achievement it is 5 years still. There is no mistake that Mandarin is Iron Man's arch-nemesis--they represent ideas larger than themselves. Back in the day, it was Communism vs. Capitalism but the world has shifted and now it is Radicalism/Extremism vs. Autonomy/Capitalism. Again, The Mandarin is not irrelevant, merely outdated. Either way, the filmmakers got him half right (and sadly they chose the cheap and easy way out with Guy Pearce's blustering Fire Breath shout bore of a character).

    It is the obvious route with modern Hollywood: You'll make more money by pandering to the lowest common denominator.
    More CGI 'splosions and cheap laughs, please.

  9. #9

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    I thought it was just a fun action movie. I had no expectations going in, so I was not disappointed.

    But if they did essentially reduce Ironman's arch nemesis to a joke/fraud, then this seems pretty stupid overall. I know that it will bring in big numbers the opening weekend, but the comic book fans (I am not one) are what keeps movies like this in theaters for a long time. I am guessing this is not one that they will see over and over in the theater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    Finished watching it several hours ago. Prepare to break out the reading glasses.

    On an intellectual level, I actually enjoyed this "twist." The filmmakers deliberately drew attention to the racism connotations that this outdated character inhabits, while mocking the white-bread-tastes-better-than-the-rest demeanor America is notorious for. It also tackled the big elephant in the room (media fear control tactics!) and had massive balls to come to the conclusion it did.

    On a narrative level? It doesn't cut the mustard. It's an insult (and not only to comic book fundamentalists, either).


    In a way, this should have been the cerebral comic book movie to rival The Dark Knight. Ultimately, what it boils down to is CONFLICT of idealogy...and that was essentially what made The Dark Knight the crowning achievement it is 5 years still. There is no mistake that Mandarin is Iron Man's arch-nemesis--they represent ideas larger than themselves. Back in the day, it was Communism vs. Capitalism but the world has shifted and now it is Radicalism/Extremism vs. Autonomy/Capitalism. Again, The Mandarin is not irrelevant, merely outdated. Either way, the filmmakers got him half right (and sadly they chose the cheap and easy way out with Guy Pearce's blustering Fire Breath shout bore of a character).

    It is the obvious route with modern Hollywood: You'll make more money by pandering to the lowest common denominator.
    More CGI 'splosions and cheap laughs, please.
    Yeah, that's pretty much my conclusion is that they were afraid to truly show the Mandarin as he was because they thought that people would say he was "racist". My question is why couldn't they have given him his original powers and tactical abilities and just made him a Jihad instead? I mean they already watered down "War Machine" and called him "The Iron Patriot", why couldn't they do something similar with The Mandarin? Which brings me to another point....they barely had War Machine in the movie at all....another disappointment.


    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I thought it was just a fun action movie. I had no expectations going in, so I was not disappointed.

    But if they did essentially reduce Ironman's arch nemesis to a joke/fraud, then this seems pretty stupid overall. I know that it will bring in big numbers the opening weekend, but the comic book fans (I am not one) are what keeps movies like this in theaters for a long time. I am guessing this is not one that they will see over and over in the theater.
    I am a diehard comic book fan, and if you even tried to give me the movie for free, I wouldn't take it, much less see it again.

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