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  1. #31
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I like hard rock, specifically hardcore. I think there are pockets of really terrible hard rock and that's what's mostly on playing on the radio right now.
    Ah -- so @EffEmDoubleyou was right.

    I don't know why you keep throwing out so many subgenres that aren't hard rock and comparing them to bad hard rock. David Bowie is not hard rock, Chuck Berry is not hard rock. This thread is about hard rock, not "rock and roll" as a whole.

    And I'll agree that a lot of crappy hard rock is popular nowadays. Obviously Buckcherry and Nickelback have some pretty shitty songs. But no matter what genre you're talking about, there's always going to be crappy popular music. We idolize certain genres, certain eras, but we forget that there was a lot of crap on the radio then, too.

    We idolize pop from the 1960's. But have you ever heard "Macarthur Park"? That song is a piece of shit, but it made it to the top of the charts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    1.) I don't see how rednecks=rock

    Maybe this all has to do with a difference in how we use the term redneck? Where I'm from there is are people who are "country" and people whoa are "rednecks". People who are ruuulllll country are just rural people who are really into rural stuff. Rednecks are more like the rural equivalent of ghetto. Generally, really aggressive, macho, sexist, bigoted ect. And that exit other places too, I don't think there is a name for them but generally their radio stations are all male DJs with women moaning the song titles, they have a lot of hooters promotion and everything revolves around being bad ass.
    May depend on what part of the country you're in, then. Because that has not been my experience. (Except the bolded, which, in my incredibly white town, has some truth to it. The rest, not at all.)

    @Stanton Moore grew up in the same part of the country that I did, and he can attest to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I guess it depend what music we're talking about.

    Bad brains, Minor threat, black flag
    I'd call that punk rock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Nirvana, Hole, Mudhoney

    Pantera, Slayer, Iron maiden

    Korn, slipknot, marylin manson.
    That all plays on hard rock radio, so that's what I'm talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    It's a perspective thing I think. I think Iggy Pop is a lock more Rock and Roll than Korn, but I think he'd be a lot less accepted by what I think of as Rednecks.
    Again, we're not talking about "rock and roll" in its entirety. I'm not sure where you got that idea. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    i think I'm expressing myself really badly.
    I think our misunderstanding has less to do with your expression and more to do with our respective points, in and of themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I guess I don't know why we're arguing because I never singled out a certain genre as wholly bad.
    All your examples suggested that you were talking about hard rock/alt metal/the sort of stuff that plays on hard rock radio. (I lump it together because it has the same group of fans.) Also your adjectives and calling it "rawk" wouldn't have made much sense with any other genre.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Depends on the region. IME, where you have rednecks, you have hard rock. This includes the South, the Midwest, and the Rocky Mountain West.

    I'm from the latter of those three, and most people there either listen to hard rock radio*, Top 40, or country. No rap and nothing in Spanish (because of how white my freaking state is), and there wasn't much indie rock until the indie station showed up in 2005 or so. I always listened to hard rock and indie rock, and was disillusioned by the others.

    @Typh0n, where are you from?

    *Loosely defined. They played anything from Nirvana (grunge) to Nickelback (post-grunge) to Metallica (old-school metal) to Tool (new-school metal) to Black Stone Cherry (southern rock).

    I've been around a lot of rednecks in my life. I don't think it's accurate to say that where there are rednecks there is hard rock. Maybe older rednecks may listen to some hard rock, but I'd say most rednecks (as in Deep South rednecks) mostly listen to country. For the record, I love hard rock and have been a musician for quite some time. Most people south of Nashville where I'm from primarily listen to country, rap, and pop--unfortunately, not hard rock very much. Hard rock has its loyalists, but they're definitely in the minority now. Many people now seem to barely even know what hard rock is anymore.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    it's not dead but it's definitely dying and a lot of people who used to listen to only rock music are abandoning it for other genres. i just think it's kinda played out, pretty much everything original has already been done and the shock value aspect of it is gone too.
    A very accurate analysis, IMO.

  4. #34
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorenx7 View Post
    I've been around a lot of rednecks in my life. I don't think it's accurate to say that where there are rednecks there is hard rock. Maybe older rednecks may listen to some hard rock, but I'd say most rednecks (as in Deep South rednecks) mostly listen to country. For the record, I love hard rock and have been a musician for quite some time. Most people south of Nashville where I'm from primarily listen to country, rap, and pop--unfortunately, not hard rock very much. Hard rock has its loyalists, but they're definitely in the minority now. Many people now seem to barely even know what hard rock is anymore.
    Well, I guess the moral of this story is: Things Are Different In The Rockies.

    Ah well!
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    Europe still listens to hard rock even though a bit less now than in the last years, Rock Am Ring and all major rock festivals are always gathering an enormous crowd.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Ah -- so @EffEmDoubleyou was right.

    I don't know why you keep throwing out so many subgenres that aren't hard rock and comparing them to bad hard rock. David Bowie is not hard rock, Chuck Berry is not hard rock. This thread is about hard rock, not "rock and roll" as a whole.

    And I'll agree that a lot of crappy hard rock is popular nowadays. Obviously Buckcherry and Nickelback have some pretty shitty songs. But no matter what genre you're talking about, there's always going to be crappy popular music. We idolize certain genres, certain eras, but we forget that there was a lot of crap on the radio then, too.

    We idolize pop from the 1960's. But have you ever heard "Macarthur Park"? That song is a piece of shit, but it made it to the top of the charts.

    May depend on what part of the country you're in, then. Because that has not been my experience. (Except the bolded, which, in my incredibly white town, has some truth to it. The rest, not at all.)

    @Stanton Moore grew up in the same part of the country that I did, and he can attest to this.


    I'd call that punk rock.

    That all plays on hard rock radio, so that's what I'm talking about.

    Again, we're not talking about "rock and roll" in its entirety. I'm not sure where you got that idea. :/

    I think our misunderstanding has less to do with your expression and more to do with our respective points, in and of themselves.

    All your examples suggested that you were talking about hard rock/alt metal/the sort of stuff that plays on hard rock radio. (I lump it together because it has the same group of fans.) Also your adjectives and calling it "rawk" wouldn't have made much sense with any other genre.


    I'm throwing out a lot of stuff because "hard rock" is being used really vaugely. Black Flag, Minor threat, and Black flag usually are called "Hardcore". Of course they are an offshoot of punk but they don't really belong with bands like the clash, ramones, dead boys. I think that they are "harder" than a band like Nirvana. I'm mean if were trying to decide if "hard rock" is dead and nirvana counts as hard rock then I think it's a definite no.

    Again I'm not suggesting any genre is better or flawless, I merely said that there is crappy versions of rock that exist that sometimes seem to bogart the name "hard rock" while other genres which might be harder (fast, louder,rawer) or more in line with traditional rock and roll get labeled "alternative".

    I brought up Iggy pop because that's what I think of as hard rock. I think he rocks a lot harder than Korn (who aren't bad, just a bit...polished... for my taste). So I guess this just goes back to the point that "Hard rock" is apparently referring to some collection of bands that aren't necessarily that hard but just play together of the radio? basically hard rock = pop/radio rock? Cause that stuff isn't really even heavy metal.


    Again I don't think "rawk" is everything with in this "hard rock" genre (which they way your describing it isn't really a genre but a collection of different things things whose popularity overlaps on a certain demographic). For example I like stuff from system of a down, Rammstien, Rob zombie...which I think falls into "hard rock" your describing.


    But anyways I still don't see how not liking bad music equates to hating entire genres. I would hold buckcherry up as on outstanding example of anything in particular except bad rock music. Rawk could fall into a bunch of different genres. The examples I used were just stuff from the radio that I could think of.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Well, I guess the moral of this story is: Things Are Different In The Rockies.

    Ah well!

    I'm much less familiar with the Rockies. I do feel, however, that I have a pretty good idea of what is going on in the Deep South. To my dismay, I must say that hard rock just is not that prevalent anymore. The South, of course, is a diverse region. Making generalizations about it can be problematic. This was a mistake that W.J. Cash made in his book "The Mind of the South." He didn't treat the South as a whole. Instead, he focused on what he wanted to focus on. The result was a book which might have been heralded as a success by some, but which I consider a piece of crap. I do know the South well, but only the part of the South I'm familiar with. So, whatever I say that may be accurate here might not be accurate when applied to another part of the South, needless to say.

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