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  1. #41
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for a genuine cite showing that the meme I posted is considered racist/classist by even just one other person on the internet, even though just that one can't substantiate Marm-troll's claim.
    Found one.

    Quote Originally Posted by cracked.com
    I guess people remember him saying "Earf" because people are secretly racist and they assume, since Will Smith is technically black, that he must also be poor and uneducated.
    ^ By the way, that was pretty damn easy to find. You're awfully lazy with your research, for being an INTP.

    Also, I think your standards of evidence are pretty arbitrary, since this is a MEME we're talking about, and there won't exactly be academic articles out about it. (Plus, something tells me you're not going to change your mind, no matter what is said here.)
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  2. #42
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    And what do you guys think of the successful black man meme?

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  3. #43
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Nice! But if someone were making a race comment out of it, they would not have created a false impression using the cigar in the cockpit scene, but would have used the actual scene where Smith first busted the alien.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Found one.



    ^ By the way, that was pretty damn easy to find. You're awfully lazy with your research, for being an INTP.
    Why should I research it? I didn't make the claim.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #45
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Replying to this in the correct thread, to make it easier for the mods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Nice! But if someone were making a race comment out of it, they would not have created a false impression using the cigar in the cockpit scene, but would have used the actual scene where Smith first busted the alien.
    ^ I honest to God don't think they put that much thought into it.

    I'm guessing the thought process was: He looks more badass with the cigar in his mouth, and therefore we should put the badass quote with the badass picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    And what do you guys think of the successful black man meme?

    ^ I like it, because it completely subverts racial assumptions. Reminds me of the "Shit ____ people say to ____ people" YouTube videos, e.g. "Shit White Girls Say To Black Girls". Referential mocking aiming to enlighten as well as to entertain.

    Like this joke: "What do you call a black pilot?... A pilot, you racist!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Why should I research it? I didn't make the claim.
    If you care about having the correct opinion, and ensuring that others have the correct opinion as well, you'll do whatever it takes to make sure your goal is accomplished.

    Thus, you obviously don't care that much, and are being lazy.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Nice! But if someone were making a race comment out of it, they would not have created a false impression using the cigar in the cockpit scene, but would have used the actual scene where Smith first busted the alien.
    WHAT DO YOU MEAN NICE?

    I fucking posted that link way before she did.

    All she did was spell it out to you and spoon feed it to you.

    You know, when I'm arguing with ANYONE on the Internet, about anything I take remotely seriously, I research it at least quickly.

    For you to say you shouldn't research it because you didn't make the claim is so lazy and childish, that it reeks of avoidance of the topic of hand.

  7. #47
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ I like it, because it completely subverts racial assumptions. Reminds me of the "Shit ____ people say to ____ people" YouTube videos, e.g. "Shit White Girls Say To Black Girls". Referential mocking aiming to enlighten as well as to entertain.
    Agreed. Great analysis.

    Like this joke: "What do you call a black pilot?... A pilot, you racist!"
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Replying to this in the correct thread, to make it easier for the mods.

    ^ I honest to God don't think they put that much thought into it.

    I'm guessing the thought process was: He looks more badass with the cigar in his mouth, and therefore we should put the badass quote with the badass picture.

    ^ I like it, because it completely subverts racial assumptions. Reminds me of the "Shit ____ people say to ____ people" YouTube videos, e.g. "Shit White Girls Say To Black Girls". Referential mocking aiming to enlighten as well as to entertain.

    Like this joke: "What do you call a black pilot?... A pilot, you racist!"

    If you care about having the correct opinion, and ensuring that others have the correct opinion as well, you'll do whatever it takes to make sure your goal is accomplished.

    Thus, you obviously don't care that much, and are being lazy.
    Thus, you have been on my <PLONK> list for over a year now. Try using logic.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    For you to say you shouldn't research it because you didn't make the claim is so lazy and childish, that it reeks of avoidance of the topic of hand.
    That's because he IS avoiding the topic at hand.

    I'm wondering if you should just block him, because he obviously loves to make you angry. Don't you, @Mal+? Seems like trolling Marm is one of your favorite hobbies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Thus, you have been on my <PLONK> list for over a year now. Try using logic.
    Whatever.

    I was acting under the assumption that most people aren't logical most of the time. It's a bit naive to think otherwise.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  10. #50
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Oh, the hoary old "white man can't know, he WASN'T THERE" trope. Honestly, Rex, I like you and I agree with many of your posts, but this is intellectually dishonest at best and disingenuous at worst. Shame on you for saying that we aren't allowed to have a considered opinion on this topic, that we can't be thoughtful enough to know the landscape. That as much as anything is responsible for the sorry state of racial politics. Everyone has the right to define what is offensive to them, but that doesn't have any larger meaning. The gulf between what someone finds offensive and an actual offense can sometimes be as wide as the ocean.
    FMW, I like you and similarly appreciate what you contribute to the forum. That's not the issue here. The problem with you and Mal's response to Marm was that she's pointing out a fairly cut and dry example of dogwhistle racism, and y'alls reaction to her just came off dismissive. In Mal's case, it looked like he'd made an oversight and was tapdancing as fast as he could to make it look like anyone but him was the ignorant one. Meanwhile, you come in and say

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    It's your opinion that this meme is racist, which you're entitled to. But it's not a closed case.
    is ironic when the opposite (i.e., it being someone's opinion that something is not racist [which they're naturally entitled to] by no means makes it the case) is equally true. That was the point of my riff. It's easy for something to be a blindspot when it's not something you contend with on a regular basis, and that's okay. But knowing that to be the case, then you should be more credulous when someone brings something like that to your attention, not less so.

    To speak to your larger point about how me pointing out the role that privilege played in you and Mal's reactions contributes to the "sorry state or racial politics", I couldn't disagree more. First of all, I'm not of the opinion that discussions about race should be one long browbeating for the white people in the room. In fact, I feel that contributions like the one that you and Mal made could be very positive because they give the offended party a way to understand how an inadvertently derogatory comment can be made with no malicious intent behind it. But the fact of the matter is that in your position as a middle class, hetrosexual, white man, you're virtually never going to be on the receiving end of prejudice. While you can facilitate understanding, you will never be in a position to arbitrate what is and is not offensive with any credibility. That doesn't give a minority unlimited right to call things racist, because that's equally ridiculous. We have as much responsibility to remember the seriousness of making an allegation of racism, and make that call only as a last resort.

    To bring it all home, what I took exception to about the exchange with Marm was that she pointed something out, brought in third party evidence to support her claim, and no one was apparently open to the idea that, yeah, maybe there's something to what she's saying. No one was willing to evaluate their own position before dismissing hers. That part where there was no doubt to slow anyone's roll is not a function of objectivity nor superior insight, but privilege. No one who was talking with Marm had any direct experience of discrimination, but they felt ok to make a call about what was and wasn't racist. That to me is bullshit.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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