Stereotypes and memes and racism, oh my! [split thread]

[Thalassa]

Just so everyone can be clear, I posted that Cracked.com reference way back here, and apparently Mal ignored it willfully for personal reasons (?) because he seemed to think it was wonderful when EJCC posted the same thing.

So someone please tell me who is trolling and made it personal? Because apparently it's not me. The factual aspect of the information posted didn't change because of who posted or how they posted it.

 

[Tyrinth]

So someone please tell me who is trolling and made it personal?

I don't think anyone was trolling. It seemed to me that it was just the clash of two different points of view, with neither side willing to give. I'm often wrong about these things, though...

It was fun to watch, though.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't think anyone was trolling. It seemed to me that it was just the clash of two different points of view, with neither side willing to give. I'm often wrong about these things, though...

It was fun to watch, though.

I'm pretty sure Mal was trolling when he started making personal attacks on me instead of addressing the topic.

 

[Tyrinth]

I'm pretty sure Mal was trolling when he started making personal attacks on me instead of addressing the topic.

You asked for opinions, and I gave mine.

 

[gromit]

I have no idea what the original meme is, but the original scene does not involve a cigar or "earf" but does involve Will Smith punching an alien in the face and saying "welcome to earth."

Aw now I want to watch Independence Day.

 

[Bamboo]

Maybe I'm not brushed up on my racist beliefs, but I don't get why that is racist. Black people say "earf"? Black people don't pronounce "th"? Is that a thing people think?

I used to say earf. I was teased in...I dunno, 2nd grade because I didn't hear the difference. I remember I had a friend named Elizabeth. Of all the things I don't think anyone called me black because of it.

Seems like stupid internet spelling to me and then it just spread? I wonder who first invented it. I'd be inclined to guess someone saw it, and the internet being the racist place that it is, turned it INTO a race thing.

Look, I get the argument that just cause I don't see why it's racist doesn't mean it can't be...but without any more data on the subject, I don't know how you can draw the conclusion this was based in race. Is there some cultural belief that black people don't say "th" I never heard of?

 

[Lexicon]

Maybe I'm not brushed up on my racist beliefs, but I don't get why that is racist. Black people say "earf"? Black people don't pronounce "th"? Is that a thing people think?

I used to say earf. I was teased in...I dunno, 2nd grade because I didn't hear the difference. I remember I had a friend named Elizabeth.

Seems like stupid internet spelling to me and then it just spread? I wonder who first invented it. I'd be inclined to guess someone saw it, and the internet being the racist place that it is, turned it INTO a race thing.

@bold - everyone knows that pronunciation's got nothing to do with black people- and everything to do with cats.
Lolcats, in particular.

1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.
-The Lolcat Bible, Genesis 1:1

 

[Ginkgo]

When I watched Django Unchained, some asshole sitting in the rear of the theater chuckled, "That's right, n*****." when Django was pinned down without any ammo. What a mindfuck.

 

[Mal12345]

Maybe I'm not brushed up on my racist beliefs, but I don't get why that is racist. Black people say "earf"? Black people don't pronounce "th"? Is that a thing people think?

I used to say earf. I was teased in...I dunno, 2nd grade because I didn't hear the difference. I remember I had a friend named Elizabeth. Of all the things I don't think anyone called me black because of it.

Seems like stupid internet spelling to me and then it just spread? I wonder who first invented it. I'd be inclined to guess someone saw it, and the internet being the racist place that it is, turned it INTO a race thing.

Look, I get the argument that just cause I don't see why it's racist doesn't mean it can't be...but without any more data on the subject, I don't know how you can draw the conclusion this was based in race. Is there some cultural belief that black people don't say "th" I never heard of?

It's an internet meme called "There's a Great Meme - Let's Find a Way to Spoil It!"



I'm not saying this picture reminds me of anybody on this forum, it just seemed like an appropriate time to start a brand new meme.

 

[garbage]

The letters 't' and 'f' are next to each other and look kinda similar

 

[Epiphany]

I have no idea what the original meme is, but the original scene does not involve a cigar or "earf" but does involve Will Smith punching an alien in the face and saying "welcome to earth."

Aw now I want to watch Independence Day.

I posted that at the beginning of the other thread. Not sure why the meme and video weren't redirected here for the sake of clarity for those who weren't following the topic before it split. Now it's all jumblefucked. This is where it started: Movies that You Liked at First Viewing But then Began to Hate

 

[Mal12345]

I posted that at the beginning of the other thread. Not sure why the meme and video weren't redirected here for the sake of clarity for those who weren't following the topic before it split. This is where it started: Movies that You Liked at First Viewing But then Began to Hate

Is it any wonder that I hardly step foot on this forum anymore?

 

[Bamboo]

@bold - everyone knows that pronunciation's got nothing to do with black people- and everything to do with cats.
Lolcats, in particular.

1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.
-The Lolcat Bible, Genesis 1:1

That's sort of along the lines I'd guess.

It's an internet meme called "There's a Great Meme - Let's Find a Way to Spoil It!"

View attachment 9093

I'm not saying this picture reminds me of anybody on this forum, it just seemed like an appropriate time to start a brand new meme.

Umm...good luck with that...

 

[Mal12345]

That's sort of along the lines I'd guess.



Umm...good luck with that...

Meanwhile, forum activity continues to shrink.

 

[Bamboo]

So basically, [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] might be right and it's a southernism with racist overtones, or it might be something else and it's being read as something it's not.

Or it's a mixture of factors. Or maybe it was made as one thing and then got co-opted by other groups blah blah blah.

Basically, unless we find out who made this thing up in the first place it's just guessing.

 

[Mal12345]

So basically, [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] might be right and it's a southernism with racist overtones, or it might be something else and it's being read as something it's not.

Or it's a mixture of factors. Or maybe it was made as one thing and then got co-opted by other groups blah blah blah.

Basically, unless we find out who made this thing up in the first place it's just guessing.

Their reasoning boiled down to the weaker point that the meme's intended sense is ambiguous. However, it's never been posted to any racist threads. I posted one link here from another forum in which racist memes predominated. Then, although I am a "lazy" intp, I browsed around the internet and couldn't find a single example of the meme in question being used in a racial context.

 

[Bamboo]

But the point Marm is making is a solid one, it makes sense.

It's not that noting a difference in how people talk is bad or racist. It's that Will Smith clearly says Earth, and if, if, the idea behind the meme was that people watched the movie, heard he said "earth", but then intentionally changed it to "earf" because he's a black guy and black guys can't talk right then yeah, that's racist.

---

A separate issue is questioning if everything that is perceived as racist is really racist. Sometimes when you are victimized you start to see innocuous actions as threatening or you attribute to familiar "weak spots" - it's an emotional instinct that applies to everyone and it takes time and effort to get over (and getting pissed at people won't help people realize it). However, it's also relevant to note that actions that seem innocuous to some people really are screwed up, and people don't realize that taking those sort of liberties send messages that have real impact that they hadn't considered.

Their reasoning boiled down to the weaker point that the meme's intended sense is ambiguous. However, it's never been posted to any racist threads. I posted one link here from another forum in which racist memes predominated. Then, although I am a "lazy" intp, I browsed around the internet and couldn't find a single example of the meme in question being used in a racial context.

I'm not going to referee between anyone. Perhaps that is telling, but maybe not. I don't think you can really answer the question of original intent, regardless of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Mal12345]

But the point Marm is making is a solid one, it makes sense.

It's not that noting a difference in how people talk is bad or racist. It's that Will Smith clearly says Earth, and if, if, the idea behind the meme was that people watched the movie, heard he said "earth", but then intentionally changed it to "earf" because he's a black guy and black guys can't talk right then yeah, that's racist.

---

A separate issue is questioning if everything that is perceived as racist is really racist. Sometimes when you are victimized you start to see innocuous actions as threatening or you attribute to familiar "weak spots" - it's an emotional instinct that applies to everyone and it takes time and effort to get over. However, it's also relevant to note that actions that seem innocuous to some people really are screwed up, and people don't realize that taking those sort of liberties send messages that have real impact that they hadn't considered.

Smith clearly said "Earth" in the scene without the cigar.

Consider the :20 second mark of this clip:

That wasn't stated very clearly, and it was probably overdubbed as most movie dialogue is.

But my issue is this - Is it ALWAYS racist? And why must it ALWAYS be racist? Why must ambiguity always bring up the question of racism?

 

[Mal12345]

But the point Marm is making is a solid one, it makes sense.

<snip>

I'm not going to referee between anyone. Perhaps that is telling, but maybe not. I don't think you can really answer the question of original intent, regardless of circumstantial evidence.

Predominance of evidence makes sense, not some point made without regard to evidence no matter how solid the logic is. There is no evidence of anybody believing the meme has racist overtones. The most they could come up with was one person's "guess."

 

[Qlip]

The meme has racist undertones. End of story.