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  1. #31
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If you're just saying that the meme can be interpreted as racist, then you should have said so in the first place.
    She's saying that people who understand that particular type of racist comment, will recognize that the meme, by alluding to it, is racist.

    Santa and the Easter Bunny can be interpreted as imaginary, and that meme can be interpreted as racist. Because nothing is 100% certain, right?

    ... Oh, whatever. Keep your opinion if it makes you feel comfortable.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    This is the quite possibly the stupidest conversation I've ever had on this forum. I never called anyone a racist, I said the meme is racist, and it is.
    That's quite a bar to set. I don't need to have the difference between Mal being racist and the meme being racist explained to me. I disagree with both.

    The amount of defensiveness both you and Mal are projecting (especially Mal) because I pointed out that THE MEME (not he) is racist, is actually a little bizarre.

    The meme is racist. Lots of people agree.
    Disagreeing with you and not cowering is not the same as being defensive. I can also disagree with lots of people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Well clearly, Marmie, if the white men in the thread doesn't see it, then it must not exist.
    Oh, the hoary old "white man can't know, he WASN'T THERE" trope. Honestly, Rex, I like you and I agree with many of your posts, but this is intellectually dishonest at best and disingenuous at worst. Shame on you for saying that we aren't allowed to have a considered opinion on this topic, that we can't be thoughtful enough to know the landscape. That as much as anything is responsible for the sorry state of racial politics. Everyone has the right to define what is offensive to them, but that doesn't have any larger meaning. The gulf between what someone finds offensive and an actual offense can sometimes be as wide as the ocean.

    I'm going to bow out of this thread now before I lose the ability to be civil.

    Now that that's settled.
    Not so much.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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    /Nohari

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post




    Oh, the hoary old "white man can't know, he WASN'T THERE" trope. Honestly, Rex, I like you and I agree with many of your posts, but this is intellectually dishonest at best and disingenuous at worst. Shame on you for saying that we aren't allowed to have a considered opinion on this topic, that we can't be thoughtful enough to know the landscape. That as much as anything is responsible for the sorry state of racial politics. Everyone has the right to define what is offensive to them, but that doesn't have any larger meaning. The gulf between what someone finds offensive and an actual offense can sometimes be as wide as the ocean.

    I'm going to bow out of this thread now before I lose the ability to be civil.



    Not so much.
    Its not intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. Nothing else could possibly explain you and Mal both completely side-stepping the socio-cultural implications of dialect in terms of race and/or class.

    I mean neither of you are even willing to admit that, why yes, this certainly probably is interpreted this way by people who've actually met people who speak this way, or who are otherwise formally educated about dialect, and a lot more people than that; if it wasn't perceived to be such a common socio-cultural implication by people who aren't even educated about it, the meme would not be so popular in the first place (though you can dispute that) and Cracked.com wouldn't be so sure that their little half-joke about false perceptions of Will Smith saying that in the film would be well-understood by most literate people on the Internet that they'd grasp exactly why they said "He said Earth, you racist" without it having to be explained why.

    The fact that I had to explain why makes it pretty clear that I am speaking with people who are either socio-culturally ignorant or insensitive, and wow, both of you happen to be white men.

    It's easy to pretend race and class don't exist when its never concerned you in the slightest in your own life.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Marm is not a troll; she's incredibly genuine, and I would never describe her as manipulative. She says what she means, 100% of the time. Which is more than I can say for a lot of forum members here.
    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for a genuine cite showing that the meme I posted is considered racist/classist by even just one other person on the internet, even though just that one can't substantiate Marm-troll's claim.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I also understand that there are forums where they don't continually allow trolls like Troll-tini back in after a slap on the wrist ban.
    Nice way to avoid discussing the actual topic at hand.

    Carry on, Mal.

    If anyone is trolling here, right now, I believe it's you.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Its not intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. Nothing else could possibly explain you and Mal both completely side-stepping the socio-cultural implications of dialect in terms of race and/or class.
    Side-stepping how? By pointing out the truth that you are a troll?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Nice way to avoid discussing the actual topic at hand.

    Carry on, Mal.

    If anyone is trolling here, right now, I believe it's you.
    Stop trolling my threads, Marm-troll.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Moved posts out of the "movies you didn't like the first time you watched them, but..." thread. This is a thought-provoking topic, but it is ultimately a different topic.

    BTW, moving those posts should not be interpreted as a sign that anybody did anything wrong in the other thread, but some of the later posts in this string get pretty close to the line. Please don't namecall and flamebait each other.

    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

  9. #39
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    Mal just because you don't like what I am saying does not make me a troll.

    I was being completely sincere and I actually did not intend for this to carry on to this extent, but you insisted, apparently.

  10. #40
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Oh, the hoary old "white man can't know, he WASN'T THERE" trope. Honestly, Rex, I like you and I agree with many of your posts, but this is intellectually dishonest at best and disingenuous at worst. Shame on you for saying that we aren't allowed to have a considered opinion on this topic, that we can't be thoughtful enough to know the landscape. That as much as anything is responsible for the sorry state of racial politics. Everyone has the right to define what is offensive to them, but that doesn't have any larger meaning. The gulf between what someone finds offensive and an actual offense can sometimes be as wide as the ocean.
    Since you said you'd bow out of the thread, I'm not sure if you'll get a chance to read this, but I think you're a cool guy, so I hope you'll read it with the knowledge that I'm trying to help in a friendly way:

    Everyone is privileged, somehow. There's always some kind of privilege bias, and people who are privileged often are not very aware of their privilege, especially compared with those who don't have it. For example, I'm female, and am often rudely made aware of my lack of male privilege, usually by men but also by women on occasion -- and those who remind me usually have no idea that they're doing it. On the other hand, I'm white, and have definitely said stupid entitled shit, because, since I'm white, and since I wasn't raised in an environment where my white privilege would be pointed out to me very often, I sometimes forget that that privilege even exists. That's normal for any type of privilege, be it related to race, gender, mental health, or what have you.

    Yes, everyone is offended by different things. Yes, it's easy to argue about what's offensive and what's not, and not everyone has a higher tolerance for "dark" humor. But what was being responded to, here, was the fact that the meme was racist and people thought it was funny because they didn't realize it was racist. It would be a whole different ball game if people were laughing at it with full awareness that it was racist, and thinking of it as a racist joke. But what's been happening here, has been repeated denial of the existence of racism in that meme -- with the logic of "I didn't see any racism there, and therefore it's debatable that it exists." There's also the possibility that the racism is there, and you didn't see it because that sort of thing doesn't offend you personally, because it isn't making fun of you.

    (I don't think any less of people for occasionally forgetting their privilege, because I do it all the time, and pretty much everyone does. Which is why I said at the beginning, and will say again: Don't take this the wrong way.)
    Last edited by EJCC; 03-18-2013 at 08:07 PM.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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