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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Compliance

    So did anyone watch this film?

    It pretty much cribs an incident that occurred in 2004, amid a string of calls to various fast-food places and supermarkets across the country, where the caller would pretend to be a policeman, get the manger to take an employee into a back area (by accusing them of theft), and seeing what he could get them to do to the employee. The tendencies were voyeuristic in nature, the guy apparently was getting off by being obeyed and by hearing/imagining what was going on. In the McDonald's case in 2004, a young woman was accused of stealing money from a customer and then over a period of a few hours was strip-searched, cavity-searched, spanked, humiliated, and then coerced into giving the man guarding her oral sex, before they finally realized the caller was not a policeman.

    it sounds extremely silly when I just say it like this -- how stupid ARE people? -- but that's why this movie is helpful. The people involved aren't geniuses but they aren't stupid either, and you can basically watch and listen to the situation unfold and track how the caller is getting people to comply with his wishes -- he's friendly, reasonable, starts gradually, never gives any doubt that the girl is guilty even when there are questions about it, gets the management on his side by complimenting them, joking with them, empathizing with them... I imagine it went down very similarly to this.

    Personally, because of my nature, I would have thought it was bull -- I just know that what the guy was doing is not standard cop operating procedure, the policeman would not be involving civilians in these kinds of efforts -- and it's kind of ironic that the scruffiest and most wasted employee there returns near the end and is the one to finally break the spell (because he calls a spade a spade). But meanwhile, the personalities, and ages, and situations of the people involved led to the abuse of a young woman. It's incredible what people are willing to do when they believe they are being told to do it by a credible authority.

    i found the movie rather painful to watch, because of the subject matter and because I knew the whole time the call was a fake, so it was frustrating to watch the people involve continually fail to see through the ruse.

    The guy who played the caller, I think, also played the male hotel clerk in The Innkeepers.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Derpravity's Avatar
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    That sounds... extremely dark. Hadn't heard of it. I'm very curious to see it now.

    Somehow it never ceases to amaze/annoy/disturb/scare me just how easily manipulated human psychology is, and the lengths people will go to without even realising it in order to comply, or fit in, or otherwise do what they think is expected of them. It's part of the reason I think it's so important to try to think critically all the time, and not take anything for granted, and it frustrates me so much that people in general don't stress such an attitude more.
    Rational idealist. Ethical hedonist. Secular humanist. Libertarian centrist. Lawful neutral. Melancholic. Medicated Bipolar I. Cat person. Kuudere. Dark magical girl. Slytherin. Alcoholic milkshake enthusiast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpravity View Post
    Somehow it never ceases to amaze/annoy/disturb/scare me just how easily manipulated human psychology is, and the lengths people will go to without even realising it in order to comply, or fit in, or otherwise do what they think is expected of them. It's part of the reason I think it's so important to try to think critically all the time, and not take anything for granted, and it frustrates me so much that people in general don't stress such an attitude more.
    Hey, hey - why don't we do this on Typology Central to mbti and Carl Jung?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpravity View Post
    That sounds... extremely dark. Hadn't heard of it. I'm very curious to see it now.

    Somehow it never ceases to amaze/annoy/disturb/scare me just how easily manipulated human psychology is, and the lengths people will go to without even realising it in order to comply, or fit in, or otherwise do what they think is expected of them. It's part of the reason I think it's so important to try to think critically all the time, and not take anything for granted, and it frustrates me so much that people in general don't stress such an attitude more.
    The actress who played the store manager actually won a national acting award for her portrayal, and she comes off as believable. She's busy, she's a surface-thinker, someone who respects authority, and she does push back on the guy, but as she says at the end of the movie in a faux interview, "Every question I asked him, he had an answer for." Which he did. He was very slick. You could see her initially distrust him a little, but he knew exactly what to say to win her over, and since she seemed to be someone who operates in an "authority mindset" and she was talking to the police and supposedly her regional manager was with him, and since she did not think critically, she accepted it in lieu of having any obvious gaffs. By the end, she was so busy running an understaffed store that she just went with everything as being true and stopped questioning altogether, even to the point of mentally editing out things that she didn't want to be bothered with.

    Since I'm a natural critical thinker, one of my first responses would have been, "Well, can I speak to my regional manager, since he's there?" And when he said no, I would have said, "Please have him call me back, and then we can continue this conversation," and I would have hung up and likely called him, to confirm whether the police were actually there. But some people just don't think that way, they just expect authority figures to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Hey, hey - why don't we do this on Typology Central to mbti and Carl Jung?
    Some of us do. You're preaching to a partly choir.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Derpravity's Avatar
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    So apparently over 70 incidents were reported across 30 states. Colour me squicked out.
    Rational idealist. Ethical hedonist. Secular humanist. Libertarian centrist. Lawful neutral. Melancholic. Medicated Bipolar I. Cat person. Kuudere. Dark magical girl. Slytherin. Alcoholic milkshake enthusiast.
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    I want to watch it, but I don't, because I know IT WILL MAKE ME HATE PEOPLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpravity View Post
    That sounds... extremely dark. Hadn't heard of it. I'm very curious to see it now.

    Somehow it never ceases to amaze/annoy/disturb/scare me just how easily manipulated human psychology is, and the lengths people will go to without even realising it in order to comply, or fit in, or otherwise do what they think is expected of them. It's part of the reason I think it's so important to try to think critically all the time, and not take anything for granted, and it frustrates me so much that people in general don't stress such an attitude more.
    Yeah it's part of the reason why I am such a defiant person, because I see it happening all the time, how people just swarm down and do what everyone else is doing.

    There's even a different "vibe" on different personality theory web sites; like this one is more adolescent bully-esque; Personality Nation is more flat-out Children of the Corn; and while Personality Cafe may be kept under tight and rather twee control, it keeps the inhabitants rather pleasant neighbors.

    I don't even like how my environment affects me, how I react differently to different situations or people, and I'm working on that, on just keeping some kind of real internal constant.

    Because otherwise I'm also pretty keen on what the group dynamics are and how all the other people are going along with it, I've even noticed stuff like this IRL and actively removed myself from it.

    And what's creepy is many people don't even have consciousness of what they're down in; of course that's hard to tell someone if it's their family and they've lived that way for most of their life.

    But then again, how did I know to separate myself from mine, enough to give me perspective on them?

    Note that I am not saying "isolate yourself." I am saying "socialize with enough different kinds of groups of people until people are just people to you and you're less susceptible to One Way of Being." That way you can form meaningful relationships with people as individuals, and not just because they fit your particular group's ideal.

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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's incredible what people are willing to do when they believe they are being told to do it by a credible authority.
    This is scarily true. Btw, the book Influence covers this phenomenon very well.

    (Haven't watched the movie)
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

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    Senior Member Derpravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Note that I am not saying "isolate yourself." I am saying "socialize with enough different kinds of groups of people until people are just people to you and you're less susceptible to One Way of Being." That way you can form meaningful relationships with people as individuals, and not just because they fit your particular group's ideal.
    Sounds like you've developed a good attitude to the whole thing.

    I've always thought of myself as an individualist who's not influenced by others' expectations, but more recently I've come to realise that that just means I'm not aware of the more subtle ways I am influenced, and I'm still in a process of coming to terms with the actual situation and coming up with a solution.

    I grew up comparing myself to my half-sister, who's so socially immersed that she literally changes her speech patterns and sense of humour to match her social circle, among other changes. I almost wonder sometimes if she has original thoughts. I can't stand the idea of being a social chameleon, but I've come to recognise the trap of being just as reactionary in consciously being different to the crowd, as well.

    I know because I have a hard time reaching out to lots of people, especially people different from me, that I don't much access that broader pool you speak of; but I like to think that I make friends with individuals who are pretty different from each other nonetheless. Most of my close friends have been from entirely different circles, and found little in common with each other when I've introduced them. I take it as a good sign that they've all gotten me into very different hobbies, habits, environments, social groups, realms of speculation, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpravity View Post
    So apparently over 70 incidents were reported across 30 states. Colour me squicked out.
    What is REALLY frustrating is that they caught the guy but he wasn't convicted. But interestingly...all the calls stopped.

    He was a father of five, still married, using calling cards bought in wal-Mart and other places; they managed to track one of them to the purchase on surveillance tapes and could snag info about his car through the window as well.

    The store manager was fired for breaking protocol. The girl sued McDonald's for the safety risk in not adequately training the staff and not also sharing that these calls had been occurring across the country; she eventually won a much lower award, and I think even the store manager was remunerated somehow.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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