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  1. #71
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    It's funny because Michael Moore has garnered himself some hate for openly defending ZDT as an actively anti-torture film. He blames the snubbing on misogyny.

    Here's his interpretation:

    In Defense of Zero Dark Thirty
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #72
    Ginkgo
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    I figured tickets would be popular given the premise of the movie, and since I greatly appreciated the Hurt Locker for what it easily could have been, I was extremely curious about Zero Dark Thirty. The Hurt Locker broke some standards for realism; anyone who's been in the military or has read a Tom Clancy novel... Hell, anyone who's played Call of Duty or Battleground would likely roll their eyes about some of the depictions Bigelow portrayed... Perhaps a film meant to be of realism was convoluted by anti-war sentiments... and in a desperate attempt to resuscitate the plot with more realism, shit completely flew off the handle.

    Zero Dark Thirty was under heavier scrutiny, and it would have nearly been a public outrage if the script contained bastardized details.

    And hey, dramas like Breaking Bad that oscillate between dark comedy and scenes that would make any man just cringe have been on the rise. Why wouldn't the chase for Bin Laden turn a few heads, given just how complex an impact Osama has had on the West?

  3. #73
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Is this about Bin Laden ?

    They tryin' to convince the world he exists or what ?


    hahahaa

  4. #74
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Is this about Bin Laden ?

    They tryin' to convince the world he exists or what ?


    hahahaa
    Well, the way I see it, it was either Bush or Bin Laden.

    So we took both out.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Movie was excellent and I can attest to it's accuracy. I've read 2 books written by Navy SEALs who were close to the operation and the details they mention align perfectly with the movie... they were also written in the years in between now and when UBL was killed, released during or before when the movie was being filmed so you know they aren't making anything up.

    In case you don't know how water-boarding works, the suspect is on their back with a cloth over their mouth. Water is poured into their mouth and nose cavity. They can close their mouth but not their nose and eventually need to open their mouth to breath, and then more water will force itself in. Basically, without extensive resistance training the survival instinct kicks and the person believes they are actually drowning and this sensation goes on for minutes without killing the person, which is a horrible experience as you can imagine. It is indeed torture and has all the desirable aspects of torture without any elements that could leave the person dead or such a mess they can't answer any more question... so it can be used ad nauseum which is why it's highly effective.

    The main male CIA agent tells the first suspect in the movie "everyone breaks... it's biology". And he is right. Sooner or later the person can't snap out of their survival instincts once the water-boarding stops, and that, just like when the procedure is in progress, overrides their higher thinking so they will give up critical information.
    If your head is somewhat down while the water is being poured you can still breathe through your nose, the persons head has to be facing upward so the water can get inside the nose. Water up your nose is no fun.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    It's funny because Michael Moore has garnered himself some hate for openly defending ZDT as an actively anti-torture film. He blames the snubbing on misogyny.

    Here's his interpretation:

    In Defense of Zero Dark Thirty
    Reading that article the guy has a point.

  7. #77
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    The fact still remains that Bin Laden was found because of torture, but of course, it wasn't torture done on Obama's watch. The "tip" given years earlier would have been ignored otherwise (like it was at the time).

    And the insinuation that there's misogyny involved is ridiculous. Even the SEALs tell the same story (or very close) as Bigelow and they give major credit to the female CIA agent for her work. If it had been a guy, he probably would have been ignored too, given the circumstances.

    And for the record, I didn't feel all that much empathy for the guy being tortured.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    The fact still remains that Bin Laden was found because of torture, but of course, it wasn't torture done on Obama's watch. The "tip" given years earlier would have been ignored otherwise (like it was at the time).

    And the insinuation that there's misogyny involved is ridiculous. Even the SEALs tell the same story (or very close) as Bigelow and they give major credit to the female CIA agent for her work. If it had been a guy, he probably would have been ignored too, given the circumstances.

    And for the record, I didn't feel all that much empathy for the guy being tortured.
    Haha! Truth. I love it.

    I recall reading articles from pundits trashing the movie because "It endorses torture!" and "Torture violates our moral integrity!"
    What the hell are you idiots talking about? This is America. There is no "moral integrity" here. And ZDT wasn't afraid to say it.

    This is one of the most balls-out movies ever made. And it was most certainly the movie I had been expecting since Al-Queda operatives crashed planes into the World Trade Center. This movie DOES NOT endorse "nationalism". Like I mentioned in a previous post: "This is the ugly world we live in and Zero Dark Thirty doesn't appear to like it very much." This was easily the best picture of 2012 (*middle finger to the Academy*) and as far as I'm concerned it is far too efficient in quality to receive empty statues and likewise hosannas.

    Just because it isn't "your" propaganda doesn't mean it doesn't strive for the same objective(s) you do.
    It simply approaches the subject it in a more adult, thought-provoking and unflinching manner.

  9. #79
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    And it was most certainly the movie I had been expecting since Al-Queda operatives crashed planes into the World Trade Center.
    Right!

  10. #80
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    The fact still remains that Bin Laden was found because of torture, but of course, it wasn't torture done on Obama's watch. The "tip" given years earlier would have been ignored otherwise (like it was at the time).

    And the insinuation that there's misogyny involved is ridiculous. Even the SEALs tell the same story (or very close) as Bigelow and they give major credit to the female CIA agent for her work. If it had been a guy, he probably would have been ignored too, given the circumstances.

    And for the record, I didn't feel all that much empathy for the guy being tortured.
    It is hard to feel empathy for the guy being tortured.. though I don't think it is out of hate for the guy. If I were in his shoes, I'd do the same stubborn thing.. there are risks with everything you do in life. I don't think we should use torture, I'm not saying I agree with it, just that if you're going to be in the bad guy zone on any side, you should be prepared for situations like that.

    I saw zero sexism in that movie as well.. Everyone talked and related to each other on a fairly neutral basis actually, which is typical for higher echelon professional environments. There are tons of movies where guys 'know' long before their bosses figure it out, and are ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    What the hell are you idiots talking about? This is America. There is no "moral integrity" here.
    A very unfortunate truth in our country.
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