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View Poll Results: Metal. Is it music?

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  • Yes, Ja, Ja, Ja, Ja, Si, Sì, Sim, Oui, Da

    63 94.03%
  • No, Nein, Nee, Nej, Nei, No, No, Não, Non, Nyet

    4 5.97%
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Thread: Metal. Is it music?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array KDude's Avatar
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    I pity you 25 and unders.. you have an entirely different concept of what "metal" is, and judge accordingly (and I agree that most of it sucks). Metal has been around for almost 40 years now though. It's not that simple to classify. It's hard to have a discussion when we're not all referring to the same thing.

  2. #62
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I pity you 25 and unders.. you have an entirely different concept of what "metal" is, and judge accordingly (and I agree that most of it sucks). Metal has been around for almost 40 years now though. It's not that simple to classify. It's hard to have a discussion when we're not all referring to the same thing.
    Everything sucks according to somebody.

    Then it becomes a question of 'taste', which - in my opinion - usually culminates in blatant snobbery which entirely erases anything good about it.

    Elitism makes one an ugly person. And thus people continue to defy the hell out of it because expression is the beautiful thing.

  3. #63
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    @KDude

    Also old metal is not dead yet.
    Have some stoner groove.

  4. #64
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    The question was "Is it" and not "Do you think it is". Subjective answers do not fit objective questions.
    I don't think there is an objective answer to it, so subjective is what we have left.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    I don't think you can quantify a subjective with another subjective. Saying it has beauty in it actually says nothing at all because then you have to figure out what beauty is.
    You kind of have to qualify it that way, because music is not objective, and so its definition would not be either.

    mu·sic
    /ˈmyo͞ozik/
    Noun
    1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
    2. The vocal or instrumental sound produced in this way.

    The definition contains subjective concepts. What makes an auditory sensation music as opposed to another sound is an aesthetic judgment, which is necessarily subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I pity you 25 and unders.. you have an entirely different concept of what "metal" is, and judge accordingly (and I agree that most of it sucks). Metal has been around for almost 40 years now though. It's not that simple to classify. It's hard to have a discussion when we're not all referring to the same thing.
    I agree this affects the conversation and biases answers. I'm not under 25, but I have only been exposed to that one kind of metal which neither of us cares for (and which I don't consider music). So when I answered the question, from my experience at the time, I was going on that. "Objectively" speaking, outside of my experience, I acknowledge that there are other kinds which could fit a definition of music.

  5. #65
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I don't think there is an objective answer to it, so subjective is what we have left.

    You kind of have to qualify it that way, because music is not objective, and so its definition would not be either.

    mu·sic
    /ˈmyo͞ozik/
    Noun
    1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
    2. The vocal or instrumental sound produced in this way.

    The definition contains subjective concepts. What makes an auditory sensation music as opposed to another sound is an aesthetic judgment, which is necessarily subjective.
    As I said earlier, that definition is antiquated and was likely made when women wore mile wide bustles because they were 'beautiful'.

    Music is personal. Like a god is personal. Maybe more personal than that.

    You mess with someone's music, you mess with their inner being. Music is my life. You mess with my music, you mess with my life.

  6. #66
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    As I said earlier, that definition is antiquated and was likely made when women wore mile wide bustles because they were 'beautiful'.

    Music is personal. Like a god is personal. Maybe more personal than that.

    You mess with someone's music, you mess with their inner being. Music is my life. You mess with my music, you mess with my life.
    Yes, and you just said it's subjective. So to the extent that one can describe it objectively, we have to use subjective sounding words like beauty and harmony and rhythm, and then use our personal judgment to evaluate whether something fits. We can form our own definitions, but they will necessarily be subjective as well.

  7. #67
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yes, and you just said it's subjective. So to the extent that one can describe it objectively, we have to use subjective sounding words like beauty and harmony and rhythm, and then use our personal judgment to evaluate whether something fits. We can form our own definitions, but they will necessarily be subjective as well.
    Why do that in the first place? It kind of sours the whole deal when you try to define it. But maybe that's just my own subjective opinion.

    As one who has made music and appreciated everything between Mozart and Meshuggah, I'm kind of affronted by attempts to classify it.

  8. #68
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Why do that in the first place? It kind of sours the whole deal when you try to define it. But maybe that's just my own subjective opinion.

    As one who has made music and appreciated everything between Mozart and Meshuggah, I'm kind of affronted by attempts to classify it.
    That's a valid perspective, certainly. I play music, but I don't create it; I might be a little put off by attempts to classify things I creatively produce. I am certainly put off by rigid classifications of my personality type, even though I tried to do it myself in the beginning. I along with a lot of other people simply feel the need to categorize things in order to make sense of the world and feel uncomfortable if things don't fit into that process.

  9. #69
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    That's a valid perspective, certainly. I play music, but I don't create it; I might be a little put off by attempts to classify things I creatively produce. I am certainly put off by rigid classifications of my personality type, even though I tried to do it myself in the beginning. I along with a lot of other people simply feel the need to categorize things in order to make sense of the world and feel uncomfortable if things don't fit into that process.
    Yeah. I'm for categorizing music so that you can find more of it if you want to.

    Otherwise though, a little chaos can be cathartic to some people.

  10. #70
    Post Human Post Array Qlip's Avatar
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    If metal is music, is it still music if it's played by robots?


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