Metal. Is it music?

[KDude]

"Music" by my definition has some kind of harmony and pleasant sound to it.

At least half of metal has what you'd call harmony.. I assume you mean melodic elements. The other half of metal is more rhythm based (the typical chug chug/thump thump characteristic of metal). Hip hop is less "harmonic" for depending on rhythm more than melody. Drums and bass are the centerpoint of everything in hip hop. Lyrics in hip hop are especially rhythmic too (rather than sung.. usually it's only the chorus in hip hop with any semblance of melody - for example, Rihanna's chorus in that one Eninem song). As for "pleasant sound", I assume you mean the voice of the instruments used? Technically that would be the timbre. Metal uses distorted guitar sounds.. which I guess is a love or hate it thing, but you could easily turn off the distortion on many metal songs, and you'd hear a lot of "pleasant" melody at play. At the end of the day though, a lot of music works in similar ways. Don't just listen to the end product. That's just presentation really.

 

[greenfairy]

At least half of metal has what you'd call harmony.. I assume you mean melodic elements. The other half of metal is more rhythm based (the typical chug chug/thump thump characteristic of metal). Hip hop is less "harmonic" for depending on rhythm more than melody. Drums and bass are the centerpoint of everything in hip hop. Lyrics in hip hop are especially rhythmic too (rather than sung.. usually it's only the chorus in hip hop with any semblance of melody - for example, Rihanna's chorus in that one Eninem song). As for "pleasant sound", I assume you mean the voice of the instruments used? Technically that would be the timbre. Metal uses distorted guitar sounds.. which I guess is a love or hate it thing, but you could easily turn off the distortion on many metal songs, and you'd hear a lot of "pleasant" melody at play. At the end of the day though, a lot of music works in similar ways. Don't just listen to the end product. That's just presentation really.

I don't know how to explain what I "mean" by harmony, it just doesn't sound harmonious to me. It sounds like chaotic noise. It doesn't give me a feeling of harmony. It doesn't have sounds that go nicely together in a harmonious fashion. For me the end product is everything. If it's not pleasant to listen to I have no reason to listen to it. As for rap, yes it's mostly rhythm, but there are notes to go with it which sound good together, and usually a melodic chorus. Which is more than I can say for most of the metal I've listened to.

 

[KDude]

I don't know how to explain what I "mean" by harmony, it just doesn't sound harmonious to me. It sounds like chaotic noise. It doesn't give me a feeling of harmony. It doesn't have sounds that go nicely together in a harmonious fashion. For me the end product is everything. If it's not pleasant to listen to I have no reason to listen to it. As for rap, yes it's mostly rhythm, but there are notes to go with it which sound good together, and usually a melodic chorus. Which is more than I can say for most of the metal I've listened to.

Well, I guess it depends on the type of metal too. There's older blues based metal that easily full of "harmony". There's thrash, symphonic, hardcore (the real chaotic stuff... I don't care for it myself), etc.. Metallica, while old, is still probably the most recognizable band in metal, and a lot of their guitar playing is classically influenced. Watch this vid, enjoy some good skateboarding too.

 

[greenfairy]

Well, I guess it depends on the type of metal too. There's older blues based metal that easily full of "harmony". There's thrash, symphonic, hardcore (the real chaotic stuff... I don't care for it myself), etc.. Metallica, while old, is still probably the most recognizable band in metal, and a lot of their guitar playing is classically influenced. Watch this vid, enjoy some good skateboarding too.

Well I have to say I would classify Metallica as music as far as I've heard. I'm not familiar with all the different subgenres. So I guess if some of it is music and some is not, then there's not a right or wrong answer. The type I'm familiar with I sort of assumed represented the vast majority.

I enjoyed the music in the video. I wouldn't have classified it as metal though; it just sounds like rock to me. Stuff with guitars. What would you say defines something as metal as opposed to generic guitar rock?

 

[KDude]

I enjoyed the music in the video. I wouldn't have classified it as metal though; it just sounds like rock to me. Stuff with guitars. What would you say defines something as metal as opposed to generic guitar rock?

Rock, no matter how hard or ruckus, generally has some bluesy overtones to it. Metal veers in that more rhythmic "chug chug" territory I mentioned earlier. A lot of it also eschewed blues riffs in favor of classical influences. In a way, some of the earlier metal bands held on to their blues roots and innovated in this other territory. Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Metallica all sort of bridge the gap. A lot of 90s metal still hung on to these roots. The noiser shit that sounds like thumps overlayed with white noise and screaming is some variation of hardcore. It's not very listenable.. more like cathartic rage with musical instruments. I guess it has it's place.

 

[Andy]

At least half of metal has what you'd call harmony.. I assume you mean melodic elements. The other half of metal is more rhythm based (the typical chug chug/thump thump characteristic of metal). Hip hop is less "harmonic" for depending on rhythm more than melody. Drums and bass are the centerpoint of everything in hip hop. Lyrics in hip hop are especially rhythmic too (rather than sung.. usually it's only the chorus in hip hop with any semblance of melody - for example, Rihanna's chorus in that one Eninem song). As for "pleasant sound", I assume you mean the voice of the instruments used? Technically that would be the timbre. Metal uses distorted guitar sounds.. which I guess is a love or hate it thing, but you could easily turn off the distortion on many metal songs, and you'd hear a lot of "pleasant" melody at play. At the end of the day though, a lot of music works in similar ways. Don't just listen to the end product. That's just presentation really.

I'm no musical expert, but I'm guessing a lot of how a song is played depends upon who is playing it. I remember Johny Cash covering a Nine inch nails track and managing to make it sounds like country and western. I quite like both versions as it happens.

 

[jigenbakuda]

As someone who primarily enjoys synthesized music (Video game music, electronic music) and jazz, I would have to say I quite enjoy metal when I hear it, certainly more than rock and roll or alternative. I think the chord progressions in a lot of metal songs are so powerful and very pleasing to my ear, I am not really a big fan of the vocals though. I am not in the american metal scene or anything, but I have heard quite a bit of visual kei (which can be metally at times) and that is okay to listen to and I can hear true musicianship in its players, particularly the drummers. I tend to key in on the percussion.

From the viewpoint of the musical composition of metal, I would have to say I think metal is a music.

 

[swordpath]

 

[sprinkles]

I don't know how to explain what I "mean" by harmony, it just doesn't sound harmonious to me. It sounds like chaotic noise. It doesn't give me a feeling of harmony. It doesn't have sounds that go nicely together in a harmonious fashion. For me the end product is everything. If it's not pleasant to listen to I have no reason to listen to it. As for rap, yes it's mostly rhythm, but there are notes to go with it which sound good together, and usually a melodic chorus. Which is more than I can say for most of the metal I've listened to.

By your definition, metal was music long before it was not music.

Anyway.

 

[sprinkles]

Well I have to say I would classify Metallica as music as far as I've heard. I'm not familiar with all the different subgenres. So I guess if some of it is music and some is not, then there's not a right or wrong answer. The type I'm familiar with I sort of assumed represented the vast majority.

I enjoyed the music in the video. I wouldn't have classified it as metal though; it just sounds like rock to me. Stuff with guitars. What would you say defines something as metal as opposed to generic guitar rock?

It's cultural.

Music is not about end products. There's no point in doing the blues if you don't have the blues, and there's no point in doing funk if you're not funky. Those who are metal do metal and those who are grindcore do grindcore.

There's a cultural depth to music that has nothing to do with how superficially pleasant it sounds.

 

[greenfairy]

By your definition, metal was music long before it was not music.

Anyway.

So this is all considered metal, huh? Not my style, but I guess you could call it music.

It's cultural.

Music is not about end products. There's no point in doing the blues if you don't have the blues, and there's no point in doing funk if you're not funky. Those who are metal do metal and those who are grindcore do grindcore.

There's a cultural depth to music that has nothing to do with how superficially pleasant it sounds.

True, but that doesn't make the music good by the standards of people who don't enjoy listening to it.

So since I like rap I guess there's a part of me who is an inner city black person.

I like Nine Inch Nails (although I can't listen to much of their stuff at a time because it's depressing). Are they metal? I've seen them classified as industrial and alternative.

 

[sprinkles]

True, but that doesn't make the music good by the standards of people who don't enjoy listening to it.

Said standards are irrelevant because it's as simple as not listening to the music.

I like Nine Inch Nails (although I can't listen to much of their stuff at a time because it's depressing). Are they metal? I've seen them classified as industrial and alternative.

Genre has more to do with a particular feel and background. NIN is industrial rock - a mixed subset.

Once again it isn't about what something sounds like. Do you think Muddy Waters was making songs for people to be happy and dance to? No. He was a man who was singing his soul out.

You know that Parliament was originally a doo-wop group? They tried to get a deal but were told they sounded too much like other groups at the time. They got onto a smaller label and decided that keeping up the faux act was just more than it was worth, so they started to experiment and probably did shit tons of acid, but P-Funkadelic was born out of it.

 

[greenfairy]

Said standards are irrelevant because it's as simple as not listening to the music.

There aren't universal standards of musical quality because it's all somewhat subjective, but it is relevant to the question in the OP. I would answer it based on my standards which are shared by some other people. Depending on your definition of music anything can be, but arguments can be made for one over another.

Genre has more to do with a particular feel and background. NIN is industrial rock - a mixed subset.

Once again it isn't about what something sounds like. Do you think Muddy Waters was making songs for people to be happy and dance to? No. He was a man who was singing his soul out.

There would still be beauty in it. Beauty + sound + rhythm = music. The formula might vary, and it might sometimes apply to metal, but it does have to do with the way it sounds. And since music is auditory, everything about it has something to do with the way it sounds unless you're focusing only on the lyrics.

 

[sprinkles]

There aren't universal standards of musical quality because it's all somewhat subjective, but it is relevant to the question in the OP. I would answer it based on my standards which are shared by some other people. Depending on your definition of music anything can be, but arguments can be made for one over another.

The question was "Is it" and not "Do you think it is". Subjective answers do not fit objective questions.

There would still be beauty in it. Beauty + sound + rhythm = music. The formula might vary, and it might sometimes apply to metal, but it does have to do with the way it sounds. And since music is auditory, everything about it has something to do with the way it sounds unless you're focusing only on the lyrics.

I don't think you can quantify a subjective with another subjective. Saying it has beauty in it actually says nothing at all because then you have to figure out what beauty is.

 

[sprinkles]

Furthermore, I'd argue that the definition of music that is currently on the books is entirely antiquated.

I'd argue that many movements have arisen due to certain people being marginalized after learning that being forced into conventional beauty is not beautiful at all.

Just look at the whole deal with feminine fashion and beauty. It's not beautiful - it's actually very ugly.

 

[KDude]

Just look at the whole deal with feminine fashion and beauty. It's not beautiful - it's actually very ugly.

If you're talking about the fashion industry, then it's partly driven by homosexual men (so are popular male images). So it was doomed to not be a standard from the getgo.

 

[sprinkles]

If you're talking about the fashion industry, then it's partly driven by homosexual men (so are popular male images). So it was doomed to not be a standard from the getgo.

Just as music is driven by the music industry. Except in that case, it's people with dollar signs in their eyes.

 

[KDude]

Just as music is driven by the music industry. Except in that case, it's people with dollar signs in their eyes.

True enough, but there's more room for DIY'ing one's way into music (and promoting it).

 

[sprinkles]

True enough, but there's more room for DIY'ing one's way into music (and promoting it).

Indeed. Such as Akiakane, singer and visual artist. Just because she can.

 

[Elfboy]

I consider it music, just of a disgusting, low class variety that grates on the ears. music is supposed to be melodious and elegant, not grating.