User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 33

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    MBTI
    SEXY
    Enneagram
    hot
    Socionics
    body
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Except too often trying to prove more subtle forms of racism comes down to the eye of the beholder really. The fact that such racism has to be more subtle alone actually tells you something here.
    Shit in family guy where the minorities fit a stereotype and someone points out they do and makes a joke about it isn't very subtle. It's not to the extent it was a long time ago but it's still pretty fucking racist.

  2. #22

    Default

    Both Family Guy and South Park use exaggeration of racist stereotypes to mock racism, but that doesn't mean they're engaging in racism. That's like saying that describing someone as "black" is racist regardless of context. Family Guy tends to do this by using hyperbolic racist stereotypes in a context where the characters take it in stride, and South Park tends to do it by having obviously racist characters not recognized as racist by the majority of the other characters.

    I understand that satire about racial issues, for some, can be a shield used to make racist jokes. But I don't think that's the case with either of these shows. You'll have to go look at Tyler Perry's oeuvre for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Seth McFarlan's sense of humor is not as rough around the edges or unsophisticated, even though he deals with an "intellectually handicapped" main character and lots of potty humor and homoerotic jokes. I think the humor is much more clever. Is it racist? Sure, you could say that, some jokes more than others.
    I would say just the opposite. I think Seth McFarlane's humor is a less refined version of Parker's and Stone's. The rough language present in South Park may lead one to believe that it's unsophisticated, but I believe the show has some of the most insightful and sophisticated comedy on TV. Sometimes they run away with a silly or unfunny or ill-considered concept and it doesn't work, but more often than not I think they hit the mark.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  3. #23
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I would say just the opposite. I think Seth McFarlane's humor is a less refined version of Parker's and Stone's. The rough language present in South Park may lead one to believe that it's unsophisticated, but I believe the show has some of the most insightful and sophisticated comedy on TV. Sometimes they run away with a silly or unfunny or ill-considered concept and it doesn't work, but more often than not I think they hit the mark.
    Agreed that it's much more sophisticated than anything Seth MacFarlane ever created.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #24
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    Clever use of racism:




    I've oft agreed with you, Ricin. Parker and Stone are two clever people, using entire plots to identify racist undertone in society.


    McFarlan uses ten seconds to play into a stereotype.

  5. #25
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    *throws a sledge hammer through the television*

    I think people have had about enough of this infernal abomination.
    Well, that's one way to end the debate. :Alttongue:

    And @EffEmDoubleyou and @Orangey, really? We are now divided by a canyon of Cartman vs Stewie!!! (My money's on Stewie)

    50336_177107205491_3741_n.jpg
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  6. #26
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,128

    Default

    Done wrong: James Frey

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dolan
    Frey's account of prison has not a hint of that sort of unsentimental talk. Moreover, he would never use a taboo word like "white boy." This is the most striking pattern of excision in his theft from Little: Little focuses on racial hatred as the central fact of prison life; Frey invents a happy bonding lie with a black prisoner. Little insists on the truth: "[In prison] you stay with your own. Color lines are as solid as the penitentiary steel that surrounds us. You eat with, get loaded with, exercise, gamble, live and die with your own. Cross those lines and you're out of the car, roadkill."

    Little comes close to an apostrophe to his fantasy-addicted liberal readers in insisting on the fact of racial hatred in prison: "This is the way it is. If you crave martyrdom, sit at the wrong table, you'll get your cross, crown of thorns thrown in for free."

    Now guess what Frey does with Little's honest treatment of race. And remember, the key to understanding Frey is that he realized you can't lay it on too thick for an audience addicted to silly fantasies.

    Well, no matter what you guessed, you probably underestimated the sheer schmaltz, the stinking cheese, of Frey's narrative. On his first day in prison, he's clobbered by a 300-pound black inmate. Yet by page 2, Frey and the hulking thug are best buds.

    Every single detail of their courtship is wrong, in a very adaptive way. First, that name, "Porterhouse." The guy tells Frey he calls himself that because "he's big and juicy like a fine-ass steak." That's such utter, patronizing, Jeffersons-style blaxploitation crap that the fact not one reviewer objected to it tells you Frey was right: to be a bestseller, play it for total morons.

    Porterhouse's backstory displays the old-school S&M romance Frey's female fans just love: he threw his wife out of a seventh-floor window for fucking another man, then took the man to a vacant lot and blew his arms and legs off with a shotgun and then "waited thirty minutes to let the man feel the pain of the shots, pain he said was equivalent to the pain he felt when he saw the man fucking his wife."

    I guess that's love, for you normal people.

    Once again I want to smack myself for thinking that I, with my pitiful Sadean fantasies, was the sick one. You decent people go way, way past my kind, and still think you're the salt of the earth. Reminds me of one of Eddie Little's excellent Chandler-style similes, when he describes a sky "as clear as a moron's conscience."

    Frey swaggers further into patronizing fantasy when he learns that Porterhouse is illiterate. Frey spends the rest of his time in stir reading to his "big and juicy" friend, introducing the poor black man to what he considers great literature. I can't resist quoting Frey's account of the process in full: [Brace yourselves! - Ed.]

    "I read slowly and clearly, taking an occasional break to drink a glass of water or smoke a cigarette. In the past twelve weeks we have worked our way through Don Quixote, Leaves of Grass, and East of Eden. We are currently reading War and Peace, which is Porterhouse's favorite. He smiled at the engagement of Andrei and Natasha. He cried when Anatole betrayed her. He cheered at the battle of Borodino, and though he admired the Russian tactics, he cursed while Moscow burned. When we're not reading, he carries War and Peace around with him. He cradles it as if it were his child. He says that if he could, he would read it again and again."

    Amazing, isn't it? Just try to list the lies, treacle, and condescending bullshit in that paragraph-Porterhouse comes across as Frey's own Koko the talking gorilla.
    the formless thing which gives things form!
    Found Forum Haiku Project


    Positive Spin | your feedback welcomed | Darker Criticism

  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,806

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Clever use of racism:




    I've oft agreed with you, Ricin. Parker and Stone are two clever people, using entire plots to identify racist undertone in society.


    McFarlan uses ten seconds to play into a stereotype.
    Aha I remember watching that film when I was only about...8-9 with my brother and dad.

    We all loved it and what was more surprising is that my brother and I understood the implications of the humour.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #28
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Seth MacFarlane is a fucking idiot. That's all I know for sure.

    His style of "humor" is what I'd call the lowest of the low.

    Honestly, I wouldn't hate him so much if it weren't abundantly clear that he thinks of himself and his material as intelligent and subversive. If he would just accept the fact that he's a simpleton, and that his shows exhibit simpleton humor, then it'd all be good (though I still wouldn't watch that shit.)
    Well said.

    Not only racist/racially-insensitive, but MacFarlane's treatment of women is crass. Consistently playing to the the off-beat (?) perception that a group of people are inherently inferior and are therefore "fair game" for cruelty and distaste is...well, kind of bizarre and outdated. Making domestic violence a punchline. Or consistently showing Meg as unwanted and unworthy of warmth or acknowledgement. I get that it's a running gag, but the innuendo moves beyond the nuances of a single character's purposeful flaws and into a realm where women as a unit are attacked. I get it, Seth -- no fat chicks.

    It's the same gig Daniel Tosh pushes (although I don't think Tosh is truly racist; just terribly sexist). Tosh plays to the notion that women have less intrinsic intellectual/social value when compared to men and serve instead as an object of romantic scorn and sexual frustration. His "take no prisoners" comedic approach acts to conceal what really is outright sexism, as we are led to believe that he's simply performing a bit and that we've been taken in. And yes -- I get that Tosh plays to easy stereotypes to needle sensitivities, but this sort of humor clearly has an influential effect on his fans (just type in "trust fall" into a YouTube search and you'll see what I mean). It's just douchey heckling. Like that asshole corporate boss from the 70's who tells his secretary to wear a more revealing neckline if she wants to get ahead. Al Bundy-type shit.

    So, while McFarlane isn't the cause of racism and Tosh didn't start sexism, both do their very best to popularize it and make it digestible for the millions who don't know better.

  9. #29
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Well said.

    Not only racist/racially-insensitive, but MacFarlane's treatment of women is crass. Consistently playing to the the off-beat (?) perception that a group of people are inherently inferior and are therefore "fair game" for cruelty and distaste is...well, kind of bizarre and outdated. Making domestic violence a punchline. Or consistently showing Meg as unwanted and unworthy of warmth or acknowledgement. I get that it's a running gag, but the innuendo moves beyond the nuances of a single character's purposeful flaws and into a realm where women as a unit are attacked. I get it, Seth -- no fat chicks.

    It's the same gig Daniel Tosh pushes (although I don't think Tosh is truly racist; just terribly sexist). Tosh plays to the notion that women have less intrinsic intellectual/social value when compared to men and serve instead as an object of romantic scorn and sexual frustration. His "take no prisoners" comedic approach acts to conceal what really is outright sexism, as we are led to believe that he's simply performing a bit and that we've been taken in. And yes -- I get that Tosh plays to easy stereotypes to needle sensitivities, but this sort of humor clearly has an influential effect on his fans (just type in "trust fall" into a YouTube search and you'll see what I mean). It's just douchey heckling. Like that asshole corporate boss from the 70's who tells his secretary to wear a more revealing neckline if she wants to get ahead. Al Bundy-type shit.

    So, while McFarlane isn't the cause of racism and Tosh didn't start sexism, both do their very best to popularize it and make it digestible for the millions who don't know better.

    I honestly believe that comedians performing such routines subvert cultural relevance to where it no longer persists throughout society... simply because it's already been done.


    Kinda like 'the final frontier' of the ideology. But it's whatever, I understand y'all's thoughts.



    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Aha I remember watching that film when I was only about...8-9 with my brother and dad.

    We all loved it and what was more surprising is that my brother and I understood the implications of the humour.

    Yeah lol, it's good stuff. I doubt I recognized everything when I first watched it so many years ago, lol.

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Well said.

    Not only racist/racially-insensitive, but MacFarlane's treatment of women is crass. Consistently playing to the the off-beat (?) perception that a group of people are inherently inferior and are therefore "fair game" for cruelty and distaste is...well, kind of bizarre and outdated. Making domestic violence a punchline. Or consistently showing Meg as unwanted and unworthy of warmth or acknowledgement. I get that it's a running gag, but the innuendo moves beyond the nuances of a single character's purposeful flaws and into a realm where women as a unit are attacked. I get it, Seth -- no fat chicks.

    It's the same gig Daniel Tosh pushes (although I don't think Tosh is truly racist; just terribly sexist). Tosh plays to the notion that women have less intrinsic intellectual/social value when compared to men and serve instead as an object of romantic scorn and sexual frustration. His "take no prisoners" comedic approach acts to conceal what really is outright sexism, as we are led to believe that he's simply performing a bit and that we've been taken in. And yes -- I get that Tosh plays to easy stereotypes to needle sensitivities, but this sort of humor clearly has an influential effect on his fans (just type in "trust fall" into a YouTube search and you'll see what I mean). It's just douchey heckling. Like that asshole corporate boss from the 70's who tells his secretary to wear a more revealing neckline if she wants to get ahead. Al Bundy-type shit.

    So, while McFarlane isn't the cause of racism and Tosh didn't start sexism, both do their very best to popularize it and make it digestible for the millions who don't know better.
    HuffPo had a piece about this type of "humor" back in July:

    Forget Tosh -- The Outrage Isn't the Joke, It's the Laughter
    You may rightfully have Tosh fatigue, but in case you missed it: During a live show, Tosh asked what people wanted him to talk about and an ardent fan yelled "Rape!" Tosh then proceeded to go on about how rape is always funny, until another audience member yelled out, "Actually, rape jokes are never funny!" Tosh paused before following up with, "Wouldn't it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her..." Anyone who has previously been exposed to Tosh knows this is not surprising. She was asking for it.

    News articles, TV programs, Tweets, sympathizers and objectors abound. He's a good guy, just misunderstood. Tosh has the right to free speech. Objectors are humourless and oppressive. Maybe this is how you feel. Or your boyfriend, your daughter, your son or husband. This would be the "lighten-up/free-speech" defense.

    There are times when jokes, told by the right person in the right way, are taboo-breaking and revolutionary. Consider, for example, George Carlin or Chris Rock or Wanda Sykes (check out "Rape Jokes Supercut: I Can't Believe You Clapped for That"). But, those are few and far between. It was certainly not the case with Daniel Tosh. What he did was just a dumb exercise of privilege and power. No subversive satire challenging assumptions. No brilliant dismantling of culture. This was just a straight down the line rape-for-good-old-rape's sake. It's safe to say that most rape jokes are like this and are not being told by incisive comedic geniuses with a keen sense of social justice. The problem with rape jokes is that men like Tosh tell rape jokes like he did (some argue instead of jokes like these) to millions of 13 year olds. The problem with rape jokes is that the objector, and not the guy who yelled "Rape!", walked out of the show.

    Tosh's response to the objecting audience member was dismissive and demeaning. It translated into "Shut your mouth, woman, because we can always do it for you if you don't." Women, and men with empathy, don't find that funny. It didn't pointedly reveal anything about the reality of how rape works to control and oppress women. In this way it normalized and perpetuated a culture in which the silencing and degradation of women is not only tolerated, but fun. The way racist blackface humour was fun. Today's rape jokes are no different from yesterday's lynching jokes. It's just that overt racism is not acceptable, while misogyny and sexism are still celebrated.
    Also, I did not know the following about Chris Rock. I would've included it in my "the trouble with trying to own a slur..." thread.

    Chris Rock stopped using his Niggas versus Black People routine. It, like Sara Silverman's or Wanda Sykes rape routines, was side-splittingly funny, but he won't use it anymore because he felt it gave racists license to use the word nigger. Telling rape jokes -- regardless of their quality -- gives men like Tosh and his audiences license to do the same with rape. Rape is about power and degradation. People who have cultural capital, like Tosh, whether they asked for it or not, have a responsibility to think about the impact and influence of their words. Don't forget, predatory rapists believe that all men are just like them.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

Similar Threads

  1. What are your feelings about right and wrong?
    By prplchknz in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-21-2011, 07:16 PM
  2. Fictional examples of sensing and intuition in action
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-30-2010, 04:39 PM
  3. [MBTItm] right and wrong
    By Take Five in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-20-2008, 09:09 AM
  4. NJ order and NP chaos in fiction and reality
    By nightwatcher in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-04-2008, 06:08 PM
  5. [ISTJ] ISTJs and being good at distinguishing right and wrong and enforcing it
    By swordpath in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-04-2008, 08:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO