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The Dark Knight Rises

Poindexter Arachnid

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Fincher is a better director, I'd say only not as financially successful as Nolan. Fincher does provide a bit of social commentary and philosophical ideas with his pictures, but he is skilled enough to not undermine the thesis with constant exposition.

Nolan practically holds your hand through his pictures instead of allowing them to play out organically.
It's an insult to the intelligence of the viewer.
Or maybe it isn't.

Perhaps this explains his runaway commercial success from 2005 onward.
Says a lot about the culture we live, in my opinion.
 

Totenkindly

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Aronofsky's been hit or miss for me, but at least i can be assured his pictures will be original and something I haven't seen before. I need to go back and watch Requiem for a Dream again. The Wrestler was painfully good. I need to see The Fountain, still. I loved Black Swan, but he didn't hold anyone's hand -- some people just get very confused about what was happening, but I didn't have any issues with that. Natalie Portman's the type of actress that needs a good director to pull a performance out of her, and if she gets it, then she shines; otherwise she can be a bit lost and flat. So I think it says something about Aronofsky, that she really owned that movie.

Fincher's definitely better at mood and visual ambiance. Actually, I felt like the characterization in se7en wasn't bad, in terms of the two leads; I just haven't decided whether Pitt's version of a belligerent, thick-headed detective was at attempt at something atypical or just bad acting. I thought Alien3 had one of the most emotionally shitty openings (in terms of continuity) of any series pic, but the movie itself was in the middle-range in terms of quality... him being brought in to clean up someone else's mess and then having to fight the studio on costs didn't help. Still, I can be assured of some intense, provocative mood and visual in all of his movies.

I'll concede that Inception had a lot of hand-holding in. I prefer my pictures to be more organic; however, since it was consistent throughout, I just consider it a choice by the director to have a more expository story. Compare it to Donnie Darko, another movie with its own sense of what's going on that the viewer somehow has to be informed about to understand the picture; a lot less was explained in the theatrical cut but at a cost of sometimes the viewer not really understanding what was happening (the director's cut was more hackneyed and clumsy, I think).

I didn't really feel like Nolan's The Prestige held the viewers hand at all, and some people really touted The Illusionist more because of that... a movie which, when I just watched it recently, was much more simple, you were just "informed" of what the answers to the puzzles were, and thus maybe it was easier for the average viewer to digest.

I believe there is a difference between disagreeing with the movie made, and thinking a movie had the right idea but failed in execution.

Well, technically, it only failed on execution with YOU. It's not like we're talking about a movie that was panned by the critics and public. And the complaints I've seen typically revolve around Nolan hand-holding the viewers too much in that pic, not about the children motif. This is honestly the first bitch on that point I've read or heard; it seems more to me that you're bothered on a personal level by it for whatever reason, rather than it being a universal criticism.
 

MacGuffin

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Well, technically, it only failed on execution with YOU. It's not like we're talking about a movie that was panned by the critics and public. And the complaints I've seen typically revolve around Nolan hand-holding the viewers too much in that pic, not about the children motif. This is honestly the first bitch on that point I've read or heard; it seems more to me that you're bothered on a personal level by it for whatever reason, rather than it being a universal criticism.

The movie didn't fail (it's a good movie), just that aspect. It's a tweak that could've made the movie better. Nitpicking, essentially.
 

MacGuffin

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Oh, and Alien3 might've been worse if Fincher had been given complete control. A full-on autopsy of Newt? NO THANK YOU.
 

Mal12345

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This Bane guy likes twisting heads off. It seems to be his favorite killing technique. In one scene, this bad guy (I forgot his name already) walks up to Bane, and I'm already thinking "how predictable, he's within head twist range." And of course the inevitable happens almost as if he asked for it.

He does the twist thing on the physicist in the stadium. He does it on a couple other occasions. But then, at the end when Batman seems to be defeated, on his knees before him in perfect twisting position, Bane knocks him to the ground - and pulls out a shotgun?

DKR is full of this sort of shoddy writing. I could see it in the trailer -

Batman - "Why don't you just kill me?"
Bane - "Because I want you to suffer."

TROPE! Even Austin Powers poked fun at this one:

Pulls a gun sideways - "Boom! Dead! Done."
 

Pseudo

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This Bane guy likes twisting heads off. It seems to be his favorite killing technique. In one scene, this bad guy (I forgot his name already) walks up to Bane, and I'm already thinking "how predictable, he's within head twist range." And of course the inevitable happens almost as if he asked for it.

He does the twist thing on the physicist in the stadium. He does it on a couple other occasions. But then, at the end when Batman seems to be defeated, on his knees before him in perfect twisting position, Bane knocks him to the ground - and pulls out a shotgun?

DKR is full of this sort of shoddy writing. I could see it in the trailer -

Batman - "Why don't you just kill me?"
Bane - "Because I want you to suffer."

TROPE! Even Austin Powers poked fun at this one:

Pulls a gun sideways - "Boom! Dead! Done."


Not to mention that Batman's broken back not only healed after a few short months hanging from a rope in a prison in "some more ancient" part of the world but was in good enough shape for him to do some hand to hand combat.

But also how did he get from unnamed foreign place back to gotham? By Walking?

I thought the whole sex scene between him and Miranda/Talia didn't make any sense. I almost thought that there had been some weird mix up and the projector skipped ahead. It just seemed like there was zero lead up and it made it very suspicious. "You ignored my project for three years, met me once at a party, entrusted a giant nuclear reactor to me, it's raining, let's do it".



But overall I liked it.
 

Mal12345

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Not to mention that Batman's broken back not only healed after a few short months hanging from a rope in a prison in "some more ancient" part of the world but was in good enough shape for him to do some hand to hand combat.

He's Batman.

But also how did he get from unnamed foreign place back to gotham? By Walking?

He's Batman.

I thought the whole sex scene between him and Miranda/Talia didn't make any sense. I almost thought that there had been some weird mix up and the projector skipped ahead. It just seemed like there was zero lead up and it made it very suspicious. "You ignored my project for three years, met me once at a party, entrusted a giant nuclear reactor to me, it's raining, let's do it".

Well hell, he's Batman!

But overall I liked it.

Overall? Does that mean your favorite part was when it was all over with? Or am I taking you too literally.
 

Totenkindly

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The movie didn't fail (it's a good movie), just that aspect. It's a tweak that could've made the movie better. Nitpicking, essentially.

Oh. You've been arguing for it as if it were an essential element rather than a nitpick.

Carry on, then. :smile:

Re: Newt autopsy. :doh: I think I knew about that, but mercifully had forgotten. I mean, dude, Fincher -- wtf? I think my biggest gripe about the movie was the complete disregard for any closure brought by the last movie. if you want to talk about "using" (or abusing characters), his way of cleaning the slate so he could write his own tale was just hellacious and disrespectful to the franchise.
 

Pseudo

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Overall? Does that mean your favorite part was when it all ended? Or am I taking you too literally.

No, I really liked it. I just recognized a few parts that didn't make a lot of sense but hey.......it's a movie.
 

Mal12345

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DKR is a perfect example of the difference between a good movie and an entertaining movie.
 

MacGuffin

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I don't agree with everything but this part:

made me spit up my drink.

Agreed. To me, that's the most puzzling of the objections people have about the movie.

I'm sorry your superhero movie based on a comic book is not 100% rooted in scientific, medical, political, economic, psychological and temporal fact.
 

Mal12345

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Mal12345

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There's no doubt the whole plot-hole meme is being played to death. So I agree with the article on that account. And this statement from a related article also echoes on a theme I mentioned above: "While fighting Bane, Batman definitely didn’t look like a living shadow trained in ancient ninja arts — he looked like a guy struggling against his own rubber suit."

http://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/20...st-christopher-nolan-bat-movie/#ixzz228kO1c3Q

So far, I've been given no reason to doubt my criticisms of DKR.
 
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