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  1. #141
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    ...I don't wanna think about this movie anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why is this complicated for you to understand? I didn't miss that. But even aware of it, I just ended up not enjoying the movie because it's not what interests me (remember in my first comments when I said I felt nothing throughout the movie, it was just.... there?) and I'm explaining why. Kind of like when Christians tell me why I should like a Kirk Cameron movie ("but it's about hope, it's right there in the title!") but the way it's presented just doesn't do anything for me.
    Apologies, when you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It wants to portray itself as some kind of complex movie as the last, but it really never engages the questions.
    I don't think it was trying to do that at all. I believe Nolan doesn't want to repeat himself. That's why the test of corruption in TDK is over. Batman and Gotham passed (Dent failed) the test. The dark and complex questions are settled. This film is about hope, a far simpler theme.

    I think you hit it on the head though, TDKR is a religious film about faith and hope. In the first two films he is just two masks: the billionaire playboy and the avenging angel. In the TDK he gives up the Batman mask to elevate Harvey Dent into a symbol for Gotham. Afterward he tries to use his billionaire side to create something wonderful and accidentally creates a terrifying weapon. So he gives up that side as well. That's why he's adrift at the beginning, stripped of the two personas he has no "self" left. When the money is finally gone, he doesn't care, that mask holds nothing for him. The only thing left is Batman, and he gets to redeem the dark knight back to the white knight and then sacrifice it to go to "heaven". That "heaven" is the life Alfred has wanted for him all along: to be the person he would have been had not the deaths of his parents crippled his soul. He no longer isn't afraid to die, he wants to live.

    A leap of faith without a rope.

    The cycle is complete for Bruce Wayne, but Batman will be needed again. Bruce Wayne can no longer do it, so he hands the legacy off to a new champion.

    I think I like this movie the more I think about it.

    Though in the past two days I've gotten more dissatisfied with Marion Cotillard's character. She's a fine actress, but the character adds nothing. One could fold her into Bane and lose nothing. The betrayal is just a superfluous plot twist.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Agreed 100%. I thought this movie was magnificent and easily the best of the three. While TDK is also very good, the only explanation I can think of for the slobbering of Heath Ledger's wildly overpraised performance is his untimely death.
    I'll disagree about Heath Ledger. He's the best movie villain since Darth Vader. He is what is missing from TDKR to make it a great film. I think TDK is the best comic book movie of all-time and is one of the best films of the last decade.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    It is a good summer movie with a lot of rousing moments.
    Visually and aurally, TDKR decimates anything else this year, hands down.

    But it stank of the third movie curse.
    And the cards were in place to give us the greatest Batman story of all time.

    We didn't get it.
    I think Nolan could've ended with TDK, there's a natural stopping point at the end of that film that leaves the legend to continue, but I also think he wanted to show the end of Batman (or at least this version of Batman). To not leave it ambiguous but to close it off.

    INTJs and their closure issues!

  4. #144
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I'll respond to the rest later, I had a response and my browser crashed, so I'll have to rewrite it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Though in the past two days I've gotten more dissatisfied with Marion Cotillard's character. She's a fine actress, but the character adds nothing. One could fold her into Bane and lose nothing. The betrayal is just a superfluous plot twist.
    Wow. Spoiler alert on that one.



    I'll disagree about Heath Ledger. He's the best movie villain since Darth Vader. He is what is missing from TDKR to make it a great film. I think TDK is the best comic book movie of all-time and is one of the best films of the last decade.
    I agree with you there. I don't think we should be punishing Ledger's performance just because all the fanboys creamed their pants while watching it or because he happened to die shortly after. I felt he really did do an excellent job with the part, and in a portrayal of the Joker that we'd never really seen before on-screen. (Nicholson's Joker was more by the book and immoral rather than amoral.) It was a brave exploration to allow himself to mentally go there.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #145
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    I think now they should make Batman Beyond movies, with Michael Keaton as the elderly Bruce Wayne, perhaps pulling a Superman Returns and keeping the timeline of Batman and Batman Returns and disregarding Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. (Though, to be fair, Batman Forever wasn't that bad, nor was Val Kilmer a terrible Batman. But since it shared more than a few characteristics with its successor, mainly Joel Schumacher's less-than-subtle expression of his homosexuality (gone full-throttle in B&R, no pun intended), and since it also had Robin, I think it'd be safer to disregard it from the timeline.)

  6. #146
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    Despite everything I have said, now that I think about it, the "real life" approach to Batman actually works in its favor.
    I realized that Nolan's version isn't a "fictionalized" account of Batman.

    This is the story from which the legend derives. Kind of how the movie Troy was a real world take on the Trojan War, with allusions to the idea that word of legend blew the story up to ridiculous properties.


    This is a genius move from Nolan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow. Spoiler alert on that one.

    Eh, it's a thread about a movie, enter at your own risk.

    I'm not a Batman fan in general, so I know nothing about any of that other than when I go poking around wikipedia. I never really trusted her because she just came in out of the blue, and there were some hints about her when she talks about her past and the "story of Bane" in the pit. Not big hints, but they were there.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm not a Batman fan in general, so I know nothing about any of that other than when I go poking around wikipedia. I never really trusted her because she just came in out of the blue, and there were some hints about her when she talks about her past and the "story of Bane" in the pit. Not big hints, but they were there.
    Well, I don't really agree that they were "hints" because it wasn't any more than what you hear in other movies that never amounts to much. If it had never amounted into anything in this movie, no one would have been sitting around saying, "But what about...?"

    Compare it to other Nolan movies where "hints" are given and you'll see a difference.

    Anyway, it was funny because I hadn't thought about that part of the series for years and years, and at that part of the movie, the name immediately popped right into my head and triggered everything I knew about the character.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #149
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    Having not seen the movie yet, I went to Wiki and read the plot synopsis. (Big deal, it's not like I haven't seen the same movie with different titles over and over again coming out of Hollywood.) The ending, while shocking to some youngsters I suppose, was actually based on an old trope. A VERY old trope.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #150
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    I watched it a second time with a friend at his hometown, and again, I really enjoyed it!

    ..I swear to God, the Catwoman ruined it. Her role was not necessary, in my opinion.

    I noticed quite a lot of the scenes were bland, in fact. But so were a lot of the scenes in The Dark Knight. I think if people pay more attention to details than character analysis then they'll be able to appreciate this as one of the strongest movies ever made.

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