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  1. #121
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Sorry, I was looking for that 70's back issue and ran across this and laughed (read the bottom title blurb, Mac! You never told us your mom knew Batman or that you'd never have been born without his intervention!)




    BTW, for those who didn't know of R'as Al Ghul until Batman Begins came out, here's one of his earlier appearances (1972)... and it's a cool Neil Adams (I think, from the art!) cover...

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #122
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What's reallly funny to me is that, despite all of my years within Christianity, I never once thought of Batman being equated to Jesus during the movie. I've seen an occasional reviewer make that analogy too, but to me I guess one could compare anything to Jesus. I saw more analogy of it in The Matrix, far more of it (and overtly), than here. I guess if one generalizes the Jesus story and the movie narrative enough, any connection can be made... which to me is one reason why Christianity has endured so long -- the very basic story of Jesus can be layered into most life narratives in some way.

    @tinker683:
    Maybe I just like Anne Hathaway tempting with a stolen apple. I can have dreams too, can't I?

  3. #123
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Maybe I just like Anne Hathaway tempting with a stolen apple. I can have dreams too, can't I?
    Oh snap -- when you said "stolen apple" my mind automatically leaped back to "What Lies Beneath," which had a possessed Michelle Pfieffer offering her husband harrison Ford an apple... and of course she played the last iteration of catwoman in a Batman movie. Wheeee!!!!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    TDKR just doesn't seem to possess this type of internal consistency. It wants to portray itself as some kind of complex movie as the last, but it really never engages the questions. For some reason, the acting Commissioner is a glorified weeniehead, then changes his mind without good reason to march with the police. Bane is Bane. Batman comes out of seclusion for some reason that we don't grasp; but then again, his motivations for going into seclusion are weak as well. Did anyone ever doubt what the resolution with "catwoman" would be? Not really. Basically, the forces of order were "good" at heart, and the forces of darkness were "bad" at heart. Even the surprise turncoat happens without us really getting any signals, it was just like, "oh, look, I guess they're evil after all," so it felt rather like a trick than something legitimate we could track (as in The Prestige, where all the clues were actually scattered through the movie but we were just consistently misdirected).

    I think that kind of thing can actually work -- it works in the Superman movies, it works in Star Wars -- but not in a movie that pretends to be something darker and more complex about the human heart. It was a movie rich in potential that didn't seem to follow its inherent essence, based on the tone, the marketing, the title, the predecessors, and the threads within it. I think it was still better than the bulk of superhero movies that have ever come out, but it was a disappointment in what it could have explored and just... hinted at the questions and didn't go there, it was far more conventional rather than thoughtful like the earlier movies. I'm also tired of having to excuse a movie "just because it's a superhero" movie; you know a movie is good when it doesn't matter what kind of movie it is, you can just say, "hey, that was a good movie!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    This is the most upsetting factor: I didn't derive any meaning from The Dark Knight Rises.
    Nolan didn't have anything profound to "say" with this one. In fact, it feels as if it was made simply out of necessity.

    In both movies, it was foreshadowed that Batman would evolve into The Dark Knight we know and love.
    Out the window. He isn't even in this movie. He mopes around and occasionally takes his flying tank out for a stroll.

    Researching the storylines, I figured he would use Prey and Dark Victory as reference points.
    Both fit perfectly within the world Nolan has crafted.

    A plot centric upon a masked dictator with his finger on a trigger is perfunctory and came completely out of left field.
    It was incredibly sloppy writing.
    If I may be so bold, I think you two missed the point of the film because you were off looking for something beyond what was on the screen. The Dark Knight Rises, for all it's plot twists is not a complex film at all. It is a quite simple theme.

    It is about hope.

    It's there in the title, and in the metaphoric last shot of the film.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    If I may be so bold, I think you two missed the point of the film because you were off looking for something beyond what was on the screen. The Dark Knight Rises, for all it's plot twists is not a complex film at all. It is a quite simple theme.

    It is about hope.

    It's there in the title, and in the metaphoric last shot of the film.
    Oh, no you did'ent!

    But really. You're right. It wasn't complex and that was the problem.
    It was a shameless betrayal of the characters and universe of Batman.

    Sorry. Grew up on the stuff. Been a lifelong fan.
    This effort didn't cut the mustard.

  6. #126
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    Double post

  7. #127
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Seeing this soon. Can't wait.

  8. #128
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    ^I'd recommend getting liquored up first.
    Helps to ease the pain.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Oh snap -- when you said "stolen apple" my mind automatically leaped back to "What Lies Beneath," which had a possessed Michelle Pfieffer offering her husband harrison Ford an apple... and of course she played the last iteration of catwoman in a Batman movie. Wheeee!!!!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    Oh, no you did'ent!

    But really. You're right. It wasn't complex and that was the problem.
    It was a shameless betrayal of the characters and universe of Batman.

    Sorry. Grew up on the stuff. Been a lifelong fan.
    This effort didn't cut the mustard.
    Again, I think this is a struggle between the vision of the viewer and the vision of the artist. If you want to see a green picture and the picture is purple, you won't like it.

    I like Frank Miller's Dark Knight as well, but I don't think Nolan is interested in that take on the character, he wants his own version.

    For what it is, I think it is very, very good, bordering on great.

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