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  1. #31
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post

    Then why is it that Prometheus leads to so much discussion? And Sunshine hardly any? Is it that the name "Sunshine" sucks almost as bad as the name "John Carter"? Once people got over how bad Prometheus is as a movie, some of them began pondering the major themes of the movie. "Sunshine," as a disaster movie in space with some kind of moral about the fate of the first Icarus, does not have the same effect.
    It's been some time since I've seen Sunshine, but I'd say it's because Prometheus was a majorly-hyped summer blockbuster with a huge budget and a bunch of big name actors that boasted a very famous director creating a prequel to one of the most famous films ever made, which he also directed.

    It's hard to argue the amount of popular discussion a film/book/show/album generates is directly proportional to the level of intelligence, originality or even philosophical postulating it puts forth. Avengers was very heavily talked about, and while it was a good movie, it didn't exactly tackle the big questions.
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  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I want to watch Sunshine now.
    It's a really good movie. I missed it when it came out in the theaters, I don't think it was hyped well, I barely heard it was coming out and just ran across it later. I was kind of amazed once I sat down and started watching it.

    It's also got an all-star ensemble cast as good and/or likely better than Prometheus: Cillian Murphy, Chris Evans, Michele Yeoh, Rose Byrne, Hiroyuki Sanada, Benedict Wong, Cliff Curtis. Personality typing is also in force here, there's very distinct edges to the personalities on the ship that lend themselves to type study (especially Harvey and Mace, I think they're very distinctive... and the physicist comes off as pretty ITP, especially when doing the risk analysis).

    Anyway, it deserved much better than it got. It's not like Danny Boyle is not a well-known director, but Ridley Scott has his own legend and major summer blockbusters, and the Alien franchise has been around since the 70's. Sunshine also focused more on psychological horror, not slasher/action/monster gore in the way that the Alien franchise has, which limited its market. It also handed spiritual themes much better than Prometheus, which I think is so amorphous that it's basically a bare-bones crucible that viewers can project themselves into (one reason why I think it is being discussed more, people just use it as a mask through which to express their own a priori reasoning); this one actually explores various perspectives on whether humanity should save itself in the face of an endless universe and what it might mean to touch the "divine."

    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Avengers was very heavily talked about, and while it was a good movie, it didn't exactly tackle the big questions.
    Avatar.
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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    Are we still on this? My God.
    Look at the movie CRITICALLY.

    WHY are the characters dying?
    What does Pinbacker represent metaphorically?

    What's the main conflict of the movie on a macro level?
    It isn't merely Scarecrow going mano e mano with Sinestro.
    I haven't finished watching it yet. Yes I know who the legendary Icarus is. Yes I know the goal of the Icarus I and II is to save the Earth. Yes I know Pinbacker, on the macro level, went crazy and decided to let nature take its course instead of delivering the payload. Yes I know that the lack of O2 on the Icarus II is one of the deciding factors on who gets to live or die.

    There is also the similarity with Prometheus where obviously the wrong crews were chosen for the mission. It's really tropish for sci-fi movies like Sunshine to make use of superficial metaphors, but Prometheus took the metaphors to a much deeper level.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    It's been some time since I've seen Sunshine, but I'd say it's because Prometheus was a majorly-hyped summer blockbuster with a huge budget and a bunch of big name actors that boasted a very famous director creating a prequel to one of the most famous films ever made, which he also directed.

    It's hard to argue the amount of popular discussion a film/book/show/album generates is directly proportional to the level of intelligence, originality or even philosophical postulating it puts forth. Avengers was very heavily talked about, and while it was a good movie, it didn't exactly tackle the big questions.
    The Avengers was entertaining drivel for 10 year old kids. Don't get me wrong, I still like certain elements of those types of movies. But Avengers does not carry the burden of having to deliver a "message" to the audience. I like a movie such as Prometheus which forces me to have to study in order to find the meaning. Sunshine, while somewhat thoughtful, is not one of those. So it reduces to a slasher-thriller-disaster movie.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    It's been some time since I've seen Sunshine, but I'd say it's because Prometheus was a majorly-hyped summer blockbuster with a huge budget and a bunch of big name actors that boasted a very famous director creating a prequel to one of the most famous films ever made, which he also directed.

    It's hard to argue the amount of popular discussion a film/book/show/album generates is directly proportional to the level of intelligence, originality or even philosophical postulating it puts forth. Avengers was very heavily talked about, and while it was a good movie, it didn't exactly tackle the big questions.
    As I finish watching Sunshine I'll keep an eye out for some big questions. But how about an example? Is "Will we make it to the drop-off point" a big question in the movie? Or is that a small question. Can it be a macro question? But doesn't 'macro' literally mean "big"? It's not a very philosophical goal, so it can't be a macro question. Would that be something like "Should mankind allow the universe to determine its final destiny? Are we all just stardust in the end?"

    Those sound like excuses for giving up hope, and not very deep.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Even the original Alien asked a better question than that. I realize that on the surface Alien looks like a simple horror movie in space. However, there is a philosophical subtext that is lost on almost everybody. The big question is: "Should the human race even be out here?" And the method of asking this is so beautiful in its simplicity. The alien itself is symbolical of this big question.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Even the original Alien asked a better question than that. I realize that on the surface Alien looks like a simple horror movie in space. However, there is a philosophical subtext that is lost on almost everybody. The big question is: "Should the human race even be out here?" And the method of asking this is so beautiful in its simplicity. The alien itself is symbolical of this big question.
    The double standards here are too numerous to waste more time on.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The double standards here are too numerous to waste more time on.
    I've just now finished watching Sunshine. It was no Alien by any standard, double or otherwise. While watching the last 10 minutes of the movie I was reminded of the trip through the Monolith at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey. There were three Monoliths in that movie. And lo and behold, the very last scene of Sunshine contained three monoliths.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #39
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    It is also worth noting that a lot of the criticism of Prometheus (which, to reiterate because I haven't said it here, I think was pretty good but not great) is that it asks a lot of big questions but doesn't have many very satisfying philosophical answers.

    Having said that, the original Alien was also not the kind of film that necessarily did ask questions, it was still clearly about something besides the literal plot (specifically, the trauma and horror of rape, and a woman's response to that threat).
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I've just now finished watching Sunshine. It was no Alien by any standard, double or otherwise. While watching the last 10 minutes of the movie I was reminded of the trip through the Monolith at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey. There were three Monoliths in that movie. And lo and behold, the very last scene of Sunshine contained three monoliths.
    Continuing your debasement seems pointless. Even on the public scale such as RottenTomatoes, Sunshine got a 75% and Prometheus a 73%, so it seems as far as critical acclaim goes, obviously a number of people favored each movie and a quarter of the raters either had issues or didn't get it. Even people who liked Prometheus generally agree the script was a mess, and some of their liking was just watching the alien(s) at play in the movie.

    I'm also not sure I ever claimed "Sunshine" was better than "Alien" (I have issues with Alien too, although I think much of it is very good) -- I just found it much more solid and provocative than "Prometheus" for me personally, for reasons I have already stated more than enough times. Obviously it was the opposite for you, since as I've said before, you're obviously keying off different criteria than I am. ZPowers sums up my issue with the movie -- Prom asks lots of broad philosophical questions without even providing a modicum of satisfying responses that rise above the kind of poetry a high-schooler would write. The seeds were there, but were not actualized; They have a chance to salvage that in the sequel, if there is one, and I think it'll be by the sequel how Prometheus is ultimately judged -- either it'll be seen as the "opener" in a two-part story, and the second half will bring satisfaction and complete a ladder to the stars, or it will leave everything hanging, showing there were never any grand plan to begin with.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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