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  1. #61
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    No, because most people's brains aren't specialized to appreciate auditory complexity in the same way as great composers. It's the same with any human activity.
    This post made no sense.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    This post made no sense.
    Yeah especially since some of the classical composers were considered popular in their time.

  3. #63
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Okay but seriously musicians have to make money to live.

    Yeah, this is something I try to take into consideration about musicians who do change their sound because it sells. A lot of them still play their favorites, or new stuff, at live shows. They don't stop making their own stuff entirely. The need for compromise to take part in the stupidly necessary 'money' system is understandable.

    I've actually taken this into consideration for my own artistic pursuits.. acting is my passion. While my background is in live stage, and to me, there's nothing like being inside a theater, participating in creating this world, this story, relying on the strength of the interaction to pull the audience into the story, feel it's real, without CGI or real buildings, etc.. I do understand that narrowing my options with regard to performing, will not help me take care of myself, financially. Extra work is more accessible, and can pay quite well, and voiceover work for various projects- tutorials, audiobooks can, as well.

    I used to think, that pursuing anything else within the realm of acting outside what I'm really passionate about would suck the life out of the creative experience, for me. But then, when I force myself to think about it practically, I realized, hey I need money to care for my basic needs. I'd rather spend X amount of hours doing SOMETHING close to what I love - and be paid for it- than only work some other totally unrelated job I'll waste hours of my life in. (ofc, people don't often rely on acting/music as a sole means of stable income, so while I'll still be working somewhere else, it'll be part-time and flexible)

    Point being, we can't always overtly express our ideals.. it doesn't always have to detract from the artistic elements.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
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    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

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  4. #64
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    As long as the creator is making music that they love, whatever that means to them, and not diluting it to appeal to anyone else in particular, I'd still call it art, & not manufactured garbage. Sometimes it catches on, and a lot of people like it. Sometimes only a select group like it. There's a genre called ''noise'' - and while I can't stand it, I still consider it art/human expression. Some human expression is bound to be awesome or retarded to others; it's a coin toss, perhaps.
    It does make me wonder how we're supposed to define "selling out". Is every artist that makes some sort of concession a sellout? Writers who divide their work in chapters? Authors whose works are available as mass-market paperbacks and e-books? Musicians who sells CDs and audio files instead of performing only live? Directors who use exposition in movies and plays? Writers who let their work be adapted into the big screen? Artists who agree to appear on talk shows to promote their latest work?

    And, if art is solely about expression, what is the role of critique?
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  5. #65
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    I don't really bother with attaching identity to indumentary or musical choices. I can identify the usefulness to adapt to social settings to serve a specific purpose, if need, e.g. job interview/professional image. I've done that on the casual social level in order to merge within a specific setting, but again, it's the same thing, not because I have some kind of personal need. Same goes for choices of music, I can be influenced to hear something new, like other ppl sharing, which is mostly the way I come into contact with new stuff these days - often I'll search for past material from said artist, and then I'll filter it all through my own preferences, sometimes keeping some either old or new, depending on how it resonates with my own tastes, and not due to some social cliche.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    No, because most people's brains aren't specialized to appreciate auditory complexity in the same way as great composers. It's the same with any human activity. Generally great composers write for themselves privately and hit more general overtones in their work for profit. Some of the greats find a way to transcend both worlds though
    You're making "complexity" a requirement for artistic merit, which is demonstrably false. In addition, I strongly believe that art is communication, and part of making great art is being able to communicate your ideas. A poem written in Latin and read to an audience who speaks only English has no value whatsoever, no matter how skilfully or meticulously it was written.
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  7. #67
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    It does make me wonder how we're supposed to define "selling out". Is every artist that makes some sort of concession a sellout? Writers who divide their work in chapters? Authors whose works are available as mass-market paperbacks and e-books? Musicians who sells CDs and audio files instead of performing only live? Directors who use exposition in movies and plays? Writers who let their work be adapted into the big screen? Artists who agree to appear on talk shows to promote their latest work?

    And, if art is solely about expression, what is the role of critique?
    I think most of these questioned can be set aside by letting go of the conceptual ''supposed to,'' if that makes sense.
    It's human, it's subjective. I can't see any objective defining term or static ''should be'' attached to creative exercises of subjective expression, and we can only speculate what motivates others.. only they really understand their own truths.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  8. #68
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    This post made no sense.
    Why not? People who do an activity for long periods of time tend to notice more variances in it than people who do not. This is also true of people who are exposed to more variety in the subject.

    Anyways, I updated my original post but I still say what the man on the street would pick as "the best" wouldn't match what someone who was classically trained AND who enjoyed a wide range of genres would pick.

    @marmie: how could it be popular when the common people didn't have access to it for the most part? Most "technically good" music historically was commissioned by aristocrats.

    @effemdoubleyew: that's exactly what I believe, technically good music is not as accessible to people who have no musical training, exposure, or natural talent for it. I disagree with the complexity thing though. Usually this is overcome by taking something very simple and doing a lot with it. Like Beethoven and those famous 3 notes.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    You're making "complexity" a requirement for artistic merit, which is demonstrably false. In addition, I strongly believe that art is communication, and part of making great art is being able to communicate your ideas. A poem written in Latin and read to an audience who speaks only English has no value whatsoever, no matter how skilfully or meticulously it was written.
    I can tell you that I think (as me, with my personality and preferences) that epic poetry is utterly lame and is probably much more exciting if you actually *live in that culture* and *you care about the things described* and if it's performed live (like Japanese epic poems were originally intended to be sung in Kabuki theater).

    For that reason, I seem to be able to enjoy modern, specific-to-my-own-culture interpretations of The Odyssey, like Cold Mountain and O Brother Where Art Thou? despite my supreme boredom with the original work.

  10. #70
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Why not? People who do an activity for long periods of time tend to notice more variances in it than people who do not. This is also true of people who are exposed to more variety in the subject.

    Anyways, I updated my original post but I still say what the man on the street would pick as "the best" wouldn't match what someone who was classically trained AND who enjoyed a wide range of genres would pick.

    @marmie: how could it be popular when the common people didn't have access to it for the most part? Most "technically good" music historically was commissioned by aristocrats.

    @effemdoubleyew: that's exactly what I believe, technically good music is not as accessible to people who have no musical training, exposure, or natural talent for it. I disagree with the complexity thing though. Usually this is overcome by taking something very simple and doing a lot with it. Like Beethoven and those famous 3 notes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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