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Thread: U.F.C Violence

  1. #1
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    Default U.F.C Violence

    U.F.C

    Mixed Martial Arts

    Extracts taken from The New York Times

    For four years, the Ultimate Fighting Championship has lobbied the New York State Legislature to overturn its 1997 ban on live professional mixed martial arts fighting.

    But it has failed. So on Tuesday, the U.F.C. adopted a new strategy: it sued the state in Manhattan federal court, saying that the prohibition is unconstitutional. The complaint accuses the state of enacting the ban because of the violent message it believes the sport conveys.

    ““While there surely are spectators who watch solely because of their misconceived hopes of seeing ‘violence, ” it says, “countless fans watch M.M.A. because of the variety of positive messages conveyed.”

    The lawsuit also says that the ban makes no sense given that other sports and activities at least as violent, like boxing, football, ice hockey, downhill skiing, rodeo and tightrope walking over Niagara Falls, are allowed.

    End of extract

    I would like to take issue within the U.F.C lawsuit that spectators have misconceived hopes of seeing violence.
    …..........................
    Pinning somebody underneath yourself then using your elbows and bandaged fists to beat them around the head until they are senseless is definitely violence not sport.

    There isn't a single fighter or member within the U.F.C who isn't aware of the message they are conveying to society in allowing this within the rules. As the U.F.C becomes ever increasingly popular the message especially to young viewers is once mounted in a fight it is perfectly permissible to beat someone unconscious using your elbows and fists. A claim that certain types of U.F.C spectators and viewers are not susceptible to this subliminal message is ridiculous. If someone watches a thousand U.F.C fights then gets involved in fight in society once he has his opponent pinned or mounted can it really be claimed the U.F.C are not promoting the next action? Especially at a subliminal level?

    Although hard to believe it could be said that in a society as violent as ours many of the crowd at U.F.C events are waiting for this exact sort of violence to happen ( The Money Shot). So does greed once again preside over human moral decency?

    I am not claiming that by watching martial arts like boxing most actions can be replicated in a fight as they takes years of training to perfect. Smashing your elbows into someone face whilst they are physically pinned underneath you takes zero practice or training and is easily replicated. The results of a fatality are huge in this situation.

    I am not advocating a ban on the publicising and broadcasting of U.F.C as a sport I am advocating a ban if this barbaric act is not removed .

    The claim within the lawsuit that the ban makes no sense as sports such as downhill skiing are as violent is laughable.

    Rome was a technologically advanced race such as ourselves if we allow more and more barbaric behaviour to filter through are society as barbaric as the Romans is exactly what we will become.

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    It must be I have no idea what I'm talking about day.

    Have you ever heard of Jiu-Jitsu?



    Some fighters actively try to be taken down to get the fight on the ground so they can submit their opponent with a joint lock or choke.

    The fights not over till someone taps or is knocked out.

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    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Godscollie doesn't see why the capacity for violence can be useful.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It must be I have no idea what I'm talking about day.

    Have you ever heard of Jiu-Jitsu?



    Some fighters actively try to be taken down to get the fight on the ground so they can submit their opponent with a joint lock or choke.

    The fights not over till someone taps or is knocked out.

    What has grappling got to do with smashing your elbow into an opponents skull whilst he's is defenceless ( At your mercy)? I am all for choke holds and submission holds once the fight has taken to the floor i am just against smashing your elbows into somebodies temple whilst they are defenceless as any form of sport. your original " I have no idea what i am talking about day" is completely irrelevant. When did you ask me what should take place once the fight takes to the mat? what has jiu jitsu and choke holds or tap outs have to do with anything i said?


    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Godscollie doesn't see why the capacity for violence can be useful.

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    Violent sport is more of an vaccination to widespread violence than a source. People know how to hurt people naturally. Throwing a brick at somebody's head is something that doesn't need a media example to enact. Even if you could convince me that UFC is a sign of some sort of decay of today's society, then it seems silly to try to address the symptom (UFC), and not the cause.

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    You clearly are not a fighter (godscollie).
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by godscollie View Post
    Although hard to believe it could be said that in a society as violent as ours many of the crowd at U.F.C events are waiting for this exact sort of violence to happen ( The Money Shot).
    Maybe you should read this.
    So does greed once again preside over human moral decency?
    You may have to define moral decency, because I don't see anyone being unfair to anyone.
    I am not claiming that by watching martial arts like boxing most actions can be replicated in a fight as they takes years of training to perfect. Smashing your elbows into someone face whilst they are physically pinned underneath you takes zero practice or training and is easily replicated.

    The results of a fatality are huge in this situation.
    I did quick research and I came up with this data:
    Three men have died in MMA. Sam Vasquez in 2007, Douglas Dedge in 1998, and a 35 year old man only identified as Lee in South Korea in 2005. No one died in the UFC.
    I know, I know; human life is too precious to be wasted and yada yada, but we can't call the number huge. And some people die even while playing soccer. Shit happens.
    I am not advocating a ban on the publicising and broadcasting of U.F.C as a sport I am advocating a ban if this barbaric act is not removed .

    The claim within the lawsuit that the ban makes no sense as sports such as downhill skiing are as violent is laughable.
    Reasonable.
    Rome was a technologically advanced race such as ourselves if we allow more and more barbaric behaviour to filter through are society as barbaric as the Romans is exactly what we will become.
    Nobody is obliged to fight or watch.This is very different from Rome.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godscollie View Post
    What has grappling got to do with smashing your elbow into an opponents skull whilst he's is defenceless ( At your mercy)? I am all for choke holds and submission holds once the fight has taken to the floor i am just against smashing your elbows into somebodies temple whilst they are defenceless as any form of sport. your original " I have no idea what i am talking about day" is completely irrelevant. When did you ask me what should take place once the fight takes to the mat? what has jiu jitsu and choke holds or tap outs have to do with anything i said?
    If it's any consolation, this movement is illegal:
    A "12-6 elbow" is a strike that is brought from a high position ("12 o'clock") and travels vertically toward the floor ("6 o'clock"), dropping the point of the elbow directly on the target. This type of elbow is illegal in many MMA organizations, including the UFC and Strikeforce.[3] UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Jon Jones received the only loss of his career after being disqualified due to using a 12-6 elbow.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow_(strike)#12-6_Elbow
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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    First and foremost, link the article next time. U.F.C. Sues State Over Ban on Mixed Martial Arts Bouts

    It's hard to get the context unless you quote the whole thing.

    I think the UFC might win this court case.

    Quote Originally Posted by godscollie View Post
    Pinning somebody underneath yourself then using your elbows and bandaged fists to beat them around the head until they are senseless is definitely violence not sport.
    Who are you to say what is sport, or more to the point what two consenting adults can do with their time?

    It certainly is a sport.

    Probably the first human sport.

    Smashing your elbows into someone face whilst they are physically pinned underneath you takes zero practice or training and is easily replicated.
    You have no idea the amount of training and practice that goes into learning take downs and ground and pound. Not to mention the cardia training required to support an activity that strenuous.

    When amateur street fighters go to the ground, the two involved always end up looking like two monkeys fucking a coconut. If it was so easy to GnP amateurs would be able to do it.

    I am not advocating a ban on the publicising and broadcasting of U.F.C as a sport I am advocating a ban if this barbaric act is not removed.
    Ground and pound is essential to the balance of the sport.

    MMA was originally intended to see what fighting style was the best.

    By removing Ground and Pound, you would basically turn MMA into a Jiu-Jitsu competition that starts with a little (kick)boxing.

    Wrestlers would be fucked. And it would take a lot of the excitement out of the sport.

    The reason I mentioned Jiu-Jitsu is that a BJJ black belt is fucking dangerous on the bottom in full guard. If the guy on top can't punch or elbow, what can he do?

    What has grappling got to do with smashing your elbow into an opponents skull whilst he's is defenceless ( At your mercy)? I am all for choke holds and submission holds once the fight has taken to the floor i am just against smashing your elbows into somebodies temple whilst they are defenceless as any form of sport.
    But they are not defenseless. This is one of the reasons I said you don't know what you're talking about.

    If you've ever watched a UFC match that ends in a TKO (I doubt it), you will hear the ref say to the man losing the fight at the end "defend yourself" or "I'm going to call the fight if you don't do something." UFC ref's have to end the fight when a fighter can't defend himself

    your original " I have no idea what i am talking about day" is completely irrelevant. When did you ask me what should take place once the fight takes to the mat? what has jiu jitsu and choke holds or tap outs have to do with anything i said?
    It is completely relevant. Given that you thought the fighter on bottom was defenseless.

    If you had even a cursory understanding of what MMA entailed, you would not think that just because someone is on bottom in full guard, that they are defenseless.

    Here is the end of the article:
    “The linchpin is convincing the court that the ban is aimed at the content of the entertainment as opposed to the safety of the fighters,” said Tom Kelley, a partner at Levine Sullivan Koch & Schulz. “Attempts to regulate entertainment based on its violent message have been largely unsuccessful.”

    Bruce Johnson, a partner at Davis Wright Tremaine, added: “It sounds very straightforward: the government seems to be trying to regulate the message, which is very different from trying to regulate what’s healthy or unhealthy about the sport. Entertainment itself is protected by the First Amendment.”

    The lawsuit also says that the ban makes no sense given that other sports and activities at least as violent, like boxing, football, ice hockey, downhill skiing, rodeo and tightrope walking over Niagara Falls, are allowed.

    It also says that while New York bans live professional fights, it allows mixed martial arts gyms, amateur fights and the component disciplines of M.M.A., like judo, tae kwon do, karate and kenpo.

    “If M.M.A. is so dangerous,” the filing said, “then certainly the ban could have been drafted so as to prohibit all M.M.A. activities.”
    The worst part of your argument is when you go all "parade of horribles" on us and link MMA with Gladiators and the downfall of Rome.

    Are you really going to make the moral decay argument?

    MMA has always been about finding a productive outlet for aggression, self discipline, and testing yourself. In so doing finding out more about yourself and who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    First and foremost, link the article next time. U.F.C. Sues State Over Ban on Mixed Martial Arts Bouts

    It's hard to get the context unless you quote the whole thing.

    I think the UFC might win this court case.



    Who are you to say what is sport, or more to the point what two consenting adults can do with their time?

    It certainly is a sport.

    Probably the first human sport.



    You have no idea the amount of training and practice that goes into learning take downs and ground and pound. Not to mention the cardia training required to support an activity that strenuous.

    When amateur street fighters go to the ground, the two involved always end up looking like two monkeys fucking a coconut. If it was so easy to GnP amateurs would be able to do it.



    Ground and pound is essential to the balance of the sport.

    MMA was originally intended to see what fighting style was the best.

    By removing Ground and Pound, you would basically turn MMA into a Jiu-Jitsu competition that starts with a little (kick)boxing.

    Wrestlers would be fucked. And it would take a lot of the excitement out of the sport.

    The reason I mentioned Jiu-Jitsu is that a BJJ black belt is fucking dangerous on the bottom in full guard. If the guy on top can't punch or elbow, what can he do?



    But they are not defenseless. This is one of the reasons I said you don't know what you're talking about.

    If you've ever watched a UFC match that ends in a TKO (I doubt it), you will hear the ref say to the man losing the fight at the end "defend yourself" or "I'm going to call the fight if you don't do something." UFC ref's have to end the fight when a fighter can't defend himself



    It is completely relevant. Given that you thought the fighter on bottom was defenseless.

    If you had even a cursory understanding of what MMA entailed, you would not think that just because someone is on bottom in full guard, that they are defenseless.

    Here is the end of the article:


    The worst part of your argument is when you go all "parade of horribles" on us and link MMA with Gladiators and the downfall of Rome.

    Are you really going to make the moral decay argument?

    MMA has always been about finding a productive outlet for aggression, self discipline, and testing yourself. In so doing finding out more about yourself and who you are.

    I certainly am going to make a moral decay argument when you watch another man smash his elbows into an opponents head till he looses consciousness whilst mounted over him. The rest of what you said is like you are teaching me martial arts practises like you don't even know who has mounted who and who is in prime position etc your trying to rubbish a simple is it right to broadcast to millions a man smashing his elbows into another man's head whilst than man is underneath him? I have see U.F.C so don't try to make me believe something i have seen with my own eyes doesn't happen.The ref is slow to stop it, like i have said I have seen men go unconscious from a succession of elbows to head and temple, and the elbow i believe is the second hardest bone in the body after the thigh. You are trying to deflect this into a who knows more about the fighting arts argument, who cares? I didn't even call for a ban i just said i would like to see this removed from the sport. And yes definitely what's next?

    You keep on telling me about there personal rights, signed agreements etc like i care about there rights? I have a right as a father to push for seriously violent acts not to be displayed to the public. full stop.

    please don't take me through various fighting forms etc I have only a certain capacity for boredom.

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