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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Consider the fact that the greatest sci-fi movies of the time either were classics from the 1950s or lame attempts such as 2001:A Space Odyssey
    WHAWHAWHAT? All the Star Wars movies put together don't sniff 2001!
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    WHAWHAWHAT? All the Star Wars movies put together don't sniff 2001!
    All right, let's discuss this then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    WHAWHAWHAT? All the Star Wars movies put together don't sniff 2001!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    All right, let's discuss this then.

    Blue Danube waltz.

    STAR WARS THEME!
    Actually, 2010 was the best. And Star Trek II.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü View Post
    Actually, 2010 was the best. And Star Trek II.
    Star Wars Episode IV scored 8.8 at imdb.com. 2001 is at 8.4. Wrath of Khan 7.7. 2010 is at 6.6.

    I liked 2001, even the trippy light show at the end. But the movie did take a long time to get going.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Q3X5Gw5I4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33-qOXOWS4
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #65
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Given that there is quite an amount of Star Wars threads active at the moment, I figured that it would be appropriate to post one of the best (if not very best) reviews of the first three films. Done by Red Letter Media, these reviews go above and beyond others as it explains from a analytical perspective why certain aspects of the film just don't work, in addition to questioning the logic of the plot and characters. [...]
    Hey S.I., I just got done watching the reviews for Episodes II and III, and even though I didn't watch the review for Episode I yet (which doesn't really matter, since it is inconsequential for this next point), there is hardly a character analysis of Anakin at all. He just says that his characterization was poorly done (which I can agree, but I was still able to understand him).

    But you did, however, ruin Star Wars for me. (This isn't personal or anything)
    I already don't like the Originals, and now this makes me dislike the Prequels. The only thing I like about it now is Anakin's character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    Hey S.I., I just got done watching the reviews for Episodes II and III, and even though I didn't watch the review for Episode I yet (which doesn't really matter, since it is inconsequential for this next point), there is hardly a character analysis of Anakin at all. He just says that his characterization was poorly done (which I can agree, but I was still able to understand him).

    But you did, however, ruin Star Wars for me. (This isn't personal or anything)
    I already don't like the Originals, and now this makes me dislike the Prequels. The only thing I like about it now is Anakin's character.
    You should have figured that one out for yourself.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Now if you watch part 3 of Mr. Plinkett's review of Star Trek:Nemesis, you will see he makes a similar point. More is not necessarily better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DT7sSp-3_I

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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    But you did, however, ruin Star Wars for me. (This isn't personal or anything)
    I already don't like the Originals, and now this makes me dislike the Prequels. The only thing I like about it now is Anakin's character.
    You'll thank us later.

    ... I'd even refine that to be, "how Anakin's character could have been" rather than as actually implemented.

    That is a grievous mistake [that people either love him or hate him], because Anakin does not deserve to be completely loved or hated. He is not black and white; he is not a sadistic monster who truly wishes to cause others pain, nor is he a perfect, angelic person who never fails to do the right thing. He is not a classic hero, nor is he a villain. He is a mixture of both. That's another reason why people hate him. People are able to accept heroes like Luke and seem to at least not bash Palpatine who is the true villain of the series. Anakin is a fallible human being who was well-intentioned and heroic and fell to the Dark Side due to his fear of loss. That's why he did all those horrible things before he became Darth Vader: it's because he simply couldn't let go of the ones he loved. If he didn't have that problem, he would have never committed any of those "evil" deeds and would have never fell to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. And, yes, I believe that good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things. The reason why this is plausible is because of motivations. See, their motivations would just be different. It's possible for a good person, like Anakin, to steal money from another person to buy medicine for a dying family member, and it is possible for a bad person to save people for payment. Albus Dumbledore was right: "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons why they made those choices tell you even more." (paraphrased).
    Again, there's a difference what Anakin could have been, vs how he was actually implemented in the movies by the writer/director. As actually portrayed, Anakin was just a whiny angry kid with a chip on his shoulder. It's a shame he never really had a chance to be done some justice to the degreee that you spell out here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I feel sorry for your friends. They never had the experience of sitting in the movie theater before the movie starts - ready and waiting for the greatest thing that ever happened up until that time - the crawl ends, the view pans down for a few seconds of stars - and suddenly, there's this big spaceship floating by just overhead; and directly after, another one, a HUGE monstrous thing which was like nothing I had ever personally experienced before in a movie, or since. Yes, it was awe-inspiring. And it was just the beginning.
    I never saw Star Wars in the theater (I think I was only 8-9 when it came out). The first time I saw it was on betamax at a friend of my parents'. I think I did see Episodes V and VI in the theater though. I can imagine the ship would have been magnificent, seeing such a thing for the first time on the big screen.

    To be fair to Lucas, I did have a jaw-drop reaction in Episode I when they're taking the underwater vehicle, a big monster comes after them, and then this HUGE monster gobbles it up and they get away. On the big screen, that second critter still sticks with me; I really got a full sense of its size.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    (meant to include this in the last post)

    I think one of the great things about the prequels is how correct Palpatine was in his assessment of the Jedi Order. They were blind, arrogant, and corrupt. But I sometimes wonder if Lucas thinks this as well, or this is just fans reading intentions into a simpler story. Yoda said he failed towards the end of Episode III. Did he mean that he saw the true magnitude of the Jedi failure in which he played a part? Or just that he failed to defeat the Emperor in the Senate fight?
    I have the impression that Yoda withdrew in part because he felt like the Jedi failed, not just lost a fight. Their attempts to instill order and dictate society had led to disaster; better to withdraw from power and aschew it, searching within for enlightenment.

    I found the Jedi in the movies to be pompous jerks and rigid in their own way; at least the Sith were honest, and bequeated power to individuals, whereas the Jedi were opinionated and demanding. I like how the video games focused more on the reality of the Jedi code as described and how it contributed to that kind of behavior (SWKOTOR 1 & 2); at least they were honest. I have trouble telling from the movies whether Lucas actually realizes this about the Jedi or whether he's such a bad story teller that he can't even tell when his own creation is corrupt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    No, no, no, I mean, analyze his character and see how he was. It seems to me that the majority of people don't quite understand him, and it's because he wasn't done very well.
    Is Anakin what you imagine him to be in your analysis, or is he actually what he actually was? (I guess this is the situation with people in general: Are they what you idealize they could and should be, or are they actually just what they are?)

    Honestly, I'm not sure whether Twilight or Star Wars Prequels were done better. It's a toss up. Which is rather sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Anakin's downfall wasn't even interesting. He was just some angry kid (whether he was 17 or 27 or whatever) who kept finding more and more excuses to get angry and want power. But getting mad at his teacher wasn't good enough. Obsessing over a dream about Padme dying wasn't good enough. I can see jealousy being a decent motive, except there was nothing so complex as a love triangle.

    About halfway through the second episode Anakin seemed happy enough rolling through the grass, but the next thing you know he's cutting off someone's head next to the beginning of the third installment. (No wonder it was the only Star Wars series movie rated PG-13 in the US. Egads, what has happened to Star Wars?)

    Recall that Yoda had a bad feeling about Anakin at the end of the first installment. But none of the Jedi council listened to him. All he had to do was say "no," and history would have been very different. Why does Yoda have such a weak will? And if you stop and look at every decision made by the council, not a single one was even close to anything like common-sense and every single one of them led inexorably to more political power for Palatine. How wise were they really? And what was their whole problem anyway? Don't they get out enough and see how the world really is? Were they too reliant on the Force to tell them things? but that of course was blocked. So all they could do was sit around impotently hemming and hawing while Yoda mumbled some gibberish about a prophecy and the Senators were led around like sheep believing everything they were told.

    [Edit: these frustrations are related to viewing pleasure and not to plot per se. As one of the audience, I can't do anything with the information the movie is giving me to create a rewarding experience that was worth my nickel. I agree with Mr. Plinkett the reviewer in that I watched part 3 just to make it official that I watched them all.]
    Yeah, all that. I think it is advised to recall Lucas' clumsy continual use of the "cut scene" -- he couldn't make an organic transition in his films, visually, if he tried... and it comes out with his characterizations too. There is no smooth organic arc to character development; we are witnessing Anakin happy, and suddenly he is murderous (and so on and so on throughout the prequels), and somehow we are supposed to believe the reality of his character.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Well, nobody wanted to argue with Lucas. He surrounds himself with intellectually void sycophants who nod whenever he speaks and laugh whenever he makes a lame joke. It wasn't like that in 1977.
    I think this is why I was kind of blown away (despite how risque it was) at the episode of South Park where they dished up on Lucas and Spielberg for the fourth installment of Indiana Jones. It was pretty bad -- essentially they had Lucas raping Indiana Jones on-screen in various montages, since Parker and Stone felt Lucas had raped the franchise, and it was about as graphic as a cartoon of that type can be. Hard to tell whether to be filled with dread or amazement, because to publicly pillory Lucas so directly wasn't something that seemed to be happening... his adoring masses of fanboys provide a protective buffer for him to hide behind.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Probrem
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ana-Jones.html
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/show...park-vs-l.html

    I can't find any actual notes on it, but the impression I recall from reading various things at the time was that Spielberg just wanted it to disappear rather than getting pissy about it (it was kind of beneath anything he wanted to respond to) but Lucas was really angry .
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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