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  1. #51
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm sure we all have our excuses, we were all damaged from childhood to an extent. But little Ani didn't seem that emotionally bad off, really. When you're born a slave you don't have to get used to the idea. What you've said goes beyond the text anyway, although I never read the books. The movies show that Anakin was lured to the dark side through an affection, although at the beginning of the 3rd movie the transition to borderline evil was really sudden. I realize that Palpatine had something like 3 years to work on him between installments. But in terms of the movies themselves, the transition from Anakin in love rolling around in the grass to suddenly being Palpatine's little finger puppet wasn't explained well.
    You're right, but I was able to understand it quite clearly. And there were a few bits that little Ani showed his personality (though Jake Lloyd had no place playing him; he was not nearly intense enough), such as him getting mad at Padme for asking if he was a slave, his hostility towards Sebulba, and him questioning things.
    MBTI: INFP
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    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
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    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  2. #52
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I feel sorry for your friends. They never had the experience of sitting in the movie theater before the movie starts - ready and waiting for the greatest thing that ever happened up until that time - the crawl ends, the view pans down for a few seconds of stars - and suddenly, there's this big spaceship floating by just overhead; and directly after, another one, a HUGE monstrous thing which was like nothing I had ever personally experienced before in a movie, or since. Yes, it was awe-inspiring. And it was just the beginning.
    Wait, why do you feel sorry for them? Most of them like the Originals and hate the Prequels.

    Also, how can you accurately judge the Originals if many people, including you, have emotional attachments toward them through having watched them for the first time because it was something new and exciting?
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  3. #53
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Ok, I'll admit that I was completely fooled for 2 1/2 movies. I had no clue!
    All I'm saying was that there are unrealistic things with every movie.

    Also, didn't they set up the Prequels to where it made it obvious on who it was? Like, it was intentional?
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  4. #54
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    Wait, why do you feel sorry for them? Most of them like the Originals and hate the Prequels.

    Also, how can you accurately judge the Originals if many people, including you, have emotional attachments toward them through having watched them for the first time because it was something new and exciting?
    I've had many years to get over that. I'm just reminiscing to make a point, which is that nobody who wasn't there can know what it was like to be there, at that moment, with that much energy and excitement in the air. It's sort of like being at Woodstock versus watching a documentary on Woodstock.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    All I'm saying was that there are unrealistic things with every movie.

    Also, didn't they set up the Prequels to where it made it obvious on who it was? Like, it was intentional?
    Wouldn't it be rather silly and pointless of Lucas to put Palpatine in a disguise every time he plots some evil, knowing that the audience knows he is the future Emperor?

    It's obvious that Anakin is the most interesting character. The others are mere shadows in comparison. I grant the whole point. However, I have found other characters in other stories to be far, far more worthy of analysis. For example, many characters in Donaldson's Gap Sequence. Those are Sci-fi novels, whereas movies can never seem to do a characterization real justice.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #56
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    For example, many characters in Donaldson's Gap Sequence. Those are Sci-fi novels, whereas movies can never seem to do a characterization real justice.
    That's because movies aren't long enough.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    That's because movies aren't long enough.
    But Anakin was also a character in at least 3 novels, pre-Vader.
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  8. #58
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    But Anakin was also a character in at least 3 novels, pre-Vader.
    His characterization could've been done better (especially if Lucas didn't limit himself to 2 hours per film and if he would cut some of the slack) (but then again, anything can use some improvement, but his character is still interesting, which is why I like the Prequels better.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    His characterization could've been done better (especially if Lucas didn't limit himself to 2 hours per film and if he would cut some of the slack) (but then again, anything can use some improvement, but his character is still interesting, which is why I like the Prequels better.
    Yes we know, but only because you prefer tragic characters over heroic ones.

    Luke wasn't as interesting as Vader, and only at the end. Heroes are pretty much narrow-focused, simple archetypes. Archetypes are symbolic representations of ideals. Vader seemed to be an archetype of evil, but that role is played by the Emperor, not Vader. Vader's redemption is the real key to making the original series more interesting than just another hero's tale.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #60
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes we know, but only because you prefer tragic characters over heroic ones.

    Luke wasn't as interesting as Vader, and only at the end. Heroes are pretty much narrow-focused, simple archetypes. Archetypes are symbolic representations of ideals. Vader seemed to be an archetype of evil, but that role is played by the Emperor, not Vader. Vader's redemption is the real key to making the original series more interesting than just another hero's tale.
    Exactly.

    One reason I like Anakin so much is that he is neither a classic hero nor a classic villain; he's a mix of "good and evil". What I wrote here in the first paragraph of my conclusion of my analysis puts it into perspective:

    That is a grievous mistake [that people either love him or hate him], because Anakin does not deserve to be completely loved or hated. He is not black and white; he is not a sadistic monster who truly wishes to cause others pain, nor is he a perfect, angelic person who never fails to do the right thing. He is not a classic hero, nor is he a villain. He is a mixture of both. That's another reason why people hate him. People are able to accept heroes like Luke and seem to at least not bash Palpatine who is the true villain of the series. Anakin is a fallible human being who was well-intentioned and heroic and fell to the Dark Side due to his fear of loss. That's why he did all those horrible things before he became Darth Vader: it's because he simply couldn't let go of the ones he loved. If he didn't have that problem, he would have never committed any of those "evil" deeds and would have never fell to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. And, yes, I believe that good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things. The reason why this is plausible is because of motivations. See, their motivations would just be different. It's possible for a good person, like Anakin, to steal money from another person to buy medicine for a dying family member, and it is possible for a bad person to save people for payment. Albus Dumbledore was right: "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons why they made those choices tell you even more." (paraphrased).
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

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