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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    Agreed; either that, or make the movies longer, because shoving Anakin's downfall into two 2-hour movies where there a lot more things going on made it rushed (though Lucas just HAD to keep it at the 2-hour length he wanted). Or, they could've just cut out some of the slack.



    You make a good point here, and I've said this before. However, the Originals may have been better movies, especially for their time, but I just didn't find them interesting.
    It's just obvious what's going on here is very simple. We have an age difference. When Star Wars first came out it was a BIG deal, not just to me but to millions of people. But when I saw the teaser previews on TV of Luke swinging over the abyss with Leia in arm (I didn't even know their names yet or why they were doing these things), I was like HOLY SHIT! (Except I was a nice little tyke who didn't cuss at all.) So it's just something where you had to be there, in 1977, or the effect of it all is lost.

    (And then I was like that with the John Carter previews I saw on TV recently, except in this case hardly anybody else cared about that movie.)

    Consider the fact that the greatest sci-fi movies of the time either were classics from the 1950s or lame attempts such as 2001:A Space Odyssey or - Logan's Run (confusing plot and miniature shot effects) which came out two years before SW. And of course there was THX 1138 and Robinson Crusoe On Mars (which got my creative juices flowing). And Silent Running with those cute little maintenance robots which definitely predestined r2d2 (i.e., Lucas stole the concept)....






    And then, suddenly - THERE WAS STAR WARS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    There was more to it than that. I was able to write a 17,681 character (3,252 words) personal analysis of his character, because I was being tired of people complaining about him (since he was my favorite character of the entire film, right after Obi-Wan). Also keep in mind that, not only was he a slave who had animal-like logic, outside of his mother, who he hardly saw after he left to become a Jedi when he was 9, Obi-Wan (and even then, he was awfully cold with him many times), and Padme were the only ones that loved him (though he wrongfully thought the Emperor cared for him, which is why he often went to him for reassurance). Qui-Gon was nice for him for a time, but he didn't exactly love him and he died shorty after they met each other. Plus, the Jedi were very strict with him and set in their ways.

    One of the biggest problems with the Jedi is that they were often too narrow-minded, rigid, emotionally void and repressive (in all honesty, trying to repress your feelings is not good for your psychological health), and afraid of change. Completely anti-human. They just weren't adaptable or flexible enough, and ignored emotional needs altogether. On top of that, they knew that Anakin was taken in late and wasn't trained to control his emotions, and they didn't adapt to that either. They just hoped that he would learn. And when Anakin messed up, they got mad at him.
    And I can write 17,000 words about an ant-pile in my backyard (even if I have to invent most of it). All you're saying is that you were almost obsessed with his characterization. I don't really get it. However, such a thing might be good for a BA degree somewhere.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Recall that Yoda had a bad feeling about Anakin at the end of the first installment. But none of the Jedi council listened to him. All he had to do was say "no," and history would have been very different. Why does Yoda have such a weak will? And if you stop and look at every decision made by the council, not a single one was even close to anything like common-sense and every single one of them led inexorably to more political power for Palatine. How wise were they really? And what was their whole problem anyway? Don't they get out enough and see how the world really is? Were they too reliant on the Force to tell them things? but that of course was blocked. So all they could do was sit around impotently hemming and hawing while Yoda mumbled some gibberish about a prophecy and the Senators were led around like sheep believing everything they were told.

    [Edit: these frustrations are related to viewing pleasure and not to plot per se. As one of the audience, I can't do anything with the information the movie is giving me to create a rewarding experience that was worth my nickel. I agree with Mr. Plinkett the reviewer in that I watched part 3 just to make it official that I watched them all.]


    (meant to include this in the last post)

    I think one of the great things about the prequels is how correct Palpatine was in his assessment of the Jedi Order. They were blind, arrogant, and corrupt. But I sometimes wonder if Lucas thinks this as well, or this is just fans reading intentions into a simpler story. Yoda said he failed towards the end of Episode III. Did he mean that he saw the true magnitude of the Jedi failure in which he played a part? Or just that he failed to defeat the Emperor in the Senate fight?

  3. #43
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Agree with all that (though I can still enjoy the prequels, or at least parts of them). I don't think the prequels are as bad as people make them out to be, but they certainly don't hold a candle to the original trilogy.
    Yes, we can easily trash almost anything. That's what makes reviewing so much fun and rewarding. But I don't have to be influenced by reviews, I just have to recollect my first-hand viewing. Amazing... no more generic white spaceships... Terrible small-gravity effects (things don't fall according to Newton or even Galileo for that matter). That ship on the ground that exploded, it flipped over in a split-second instead of taking its time like things normally do when they explode... Yoda dropped down from that hole in the ceiling like he had super-magnets on his feet...

    Am I watching some kiddie cartoon?

    And then the plot. Why are they going there? What are they doing now? Who's talking and why should I care? It was boooooring. And the action sequences didn't make up for it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    (meant to include this in the last post)

    I think one of the great things about the prequels is how correct Palpatine was in his assessment of the Jedi Order. They were blind, arrogant, and corrupt. But I sometimes wonder if Lucas thinks this as well, or this is just fans reading intentions into a simpler story. Yoda said he failed towards the end of Episode III. Did he mean that he saw the true magnitude of the Jedi failure in which he played a part? Or just that he failed to defeat the Emperor in the Senate fight?
    I'm sure there's a lot more information on these questions in the novels. Or so I've heard. The question now is - who cares? I don't mean to be blunt, but it just seems that it was all set up for failure from the beginning. Can the Council be wrong ALL the time? I guess so. Look at our Congress, of the US or any democracy. Can they be THAT blind to Palpatine's ambitions? He must live in a secret hide-out on an island on a distant planet. No, he lives on the most populous planet in the galaxy.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #45
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It's just obvious what's going on here is very simple. We have an age difference. When Star Wars first came out it was a BIG deal, not just to me but to millions of people. But when I saw the teaser previews on TV of Luke swinging over the abyss with Leia in arm (I didn't even know their names yet or why they were doing these things), I was like HOLY SHIT! (Except I was a nice little tyke who didn't cuss at all.) So it's just something where you had to be there, in 1977, or the effect of it all is lost.

    (And then I was like that with the John Carter previews I saw on TV recently, except in this case hardly anybody else cared about that movie.)
    You're probably right about this; HOWEVER, my dad raised me watching the Originals over and over again. It wasn't until two years ago that I rewatched the Prequels. And many people my age much prefer the Originals (though some of them do because they just like retro).

    And I can write 17,000 words about an ant-pile in my backyard (even if I have to invent most of it). All you're saying is that you were almost obsessed with his characterization. I don't really get it. However, such a thing might be good for a BA degree somewhere.
    I'm saying that there was more to his characterization than him getting angry.
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  6. #46
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Can they be THAT blind to Palpatine's ambitions? He must live in a secret hide-out on an island on a distant planet. No, he lives on the most populous planet in the galaxy.
    You can find unrealistic things in just about every movie there is (if not all).
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    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    You're probably right about this; HOWEVER, my dad raised me watching the Originals over and over again. It wasn't until two years ago that I rewatched the Prequels. And many people my age much prefer the Originals (though some of them do because they just like retro).



    I'm saying that there was more to his characterization than him getting angry.
    I'm sure we all have our excuses, we were all damaged from childhood to an extent. But little Ani didn't seem that emotionally bad off, really. When you're born a slave you don't have to get used to the idea. What you've said goes beyond the text anyway, although I never read the books. The movies show that Anakin was lured to the dark side through an affection, although at the beginning of the 3rd movie the transition to borderline evil was really sudden. I realize that Palpatine had something like 3 years to work on him between installments. But in terms of the movies themselves, the transition from Anakin in love rolling around in the grass to suddenly being Palpatine's little finger puppet wasn't explained well.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    You can find unrealistic things in just about every movie there is (if not all).
    Ok, I'll admit that I was completely fooled for 2 1/2 movies. I had no clue!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    You're probably right about this; HOWEVER, my dad raised me watching the Originals over and over again. It wasn't until two years ago that I rewatched the Prequels. And many people my age much prefer the Originals (though some of them do because they just like retro).
    I feel sorry for your friends. They never had the experience of sitting in the movie theater before the movie starts - ready and waiting for the greatest thing that ever happened up until that time - the crawl ends, the view pans down for a few seconds of stars - and suddenly, there's this big spaceship floating by just overhead; and directly after, another one, a HUGE monstrous thing which was like nothing I had ever personally experienced before in a movie, or since. Yes, it was awe-inspiring. And it was just the beginning.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #50
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That's all great, and I agree with you, but that's not the movies we got from Lucas. If all six movies are supposed to be "Anakin's story" as Lucas has said in interviews, then Lucas failed to tell Anakin's story adequately in the prequels.
    That may be the case; however, I was able to understand and relate myself. I'm sure most people had/have a hard time with it though, and it shows, because it annoys me how so many people don't understand him and hate his guts. He was my favorite character, with Obi-Wan a close second. The Original characters, IMO, weren't even all that great. Luke was annoying, Han was great at times but cold at other times, Leia was bitchy/apprehensive, C-3PO was a worrywart, etc. R2-D2 was cool (even in the Prequels), Yoda was pretty cool (and funny at first), and Chewbacca was appealing with his loyalty. But the main characters were just not great. Yes, I know the characters changed as the trilogy progressed, as Leia learned to lighten up and open herself up, Han became more friendly and compassionate, and Luke developed patience, confidence, and bravery. But overall, Anakin's characterization was just more powerful to me.
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    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
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    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

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