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  1. #31
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Wow, you were able to deduce that Anakin was to become Darth Vader?
    No, no, no, I mean, analyze his character and see how he was. It seems to me that the majority of people don't quite understand him, and it's because he wasn't done very well.
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    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

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  2. #32
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Such as the scene where Anakin admitted to Amidala that he is a murderer, but she married him anyway?
    I'm not sure if many people would view the Tuskens as people and wouldn't think much of it.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  3. #33
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    He can't edit, or write dialogue. So what's his area of specialty? Marketing Star Wars toys and games?
    His specialty is the idea of Star Wars. I don't think he knows the whole story very well and sees it as a "big picture"; either that, or he knew parts of it very well but just didn't know how to fill in the gaps very well. I also think that he can't relate to his audience well because he doesn't realize that his audience doesn't have the story in their head like he does. Or something to that effect? I don't know.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  4. #34
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    What the original series has that the prequels lack is a heroic story arc that people can care about, along with likable characters who can act.
    But that "heroic story arc" that the Original Trilogy had that you speak of is boring. I find tragedies more interesting (though, having looked at these reviews has made me realize some things I never have before, but t seems like every negative review I've read of any movie or game I like or even love makes me like it less and that disappoints me).
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Theses videos explain very well why the prequel sucks.

    I think Attack of Clones was the worst of every. The "love story" between Anakin and Padmé is boring as hell and pathetic. Hayden C is a terrible actor and Natalie P is overated.

    Ther episode 1 could have been not bad, we just had to eject the gungans and to eject Amidala, to make consistent characters, to make an Obi-Wan who's not such boring , to eject the Naboo,....well.
    I've seen it argued in other places that the series would have done well to eject episode 1 altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Overall, every characters are boring, stupid an worthless, especially in the episode 2 and 3. Qui-Gon was not bad, but he was not consistent, the only thing we remind about him is his beard.

    The original trology, a contrario, is a true set of actually good movies.
    Well, nobody wanted to argue with Lucas. He surrounds himself with intellectually void sycophants who nod whenever he speaks and laugh whenever he makes a lame joke. It wasn't like that in 1977.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    No, no, no, I mean, analyze his character and see how he was. It seems to me that the majority of people don't quite understand him, and it's because he wasn't done very well.
    Anakin's downfall wasn't even interesting. He was just some angry kid (whether he was 17 or 27 or whatever) who kept finding more and more excuses to get angry and want power. But getting mad at his teacher wasn't good enough. Obsessing over a dream about Padme dying wasn't good enough. I can see jealousy being a decent motive, except there was nothing so complex as a love triangle.

    About halfway through the second episode Anakin seemed happy enough rolling through the grass, but the next thing you know he's cutting off someone's head next to the beginning of the third installment. (No wonder it was the only Star Wars series movie rated PG-13 in the US. Egads, what has happened to Star Wars?)

    Recall that Yoda had a bad feeling about Anakin at the end of the first installment. But none of the Jedi council listened to him. All he had to do was say "no," and history would have been very different. Why does Yoda have such a weak will? And if you stop and look at every decision made by the council, not a single one was even close to anything like common-sense and every single one of them led inexorably to more political power for Palatine. How wise were they really? And what was their whole problem anyway? Don't they get out enough and see how the world really is? Were they too reliant on the Force to tell them things? but that of course was blocked. So all they could do was sit around impotently hemming and hawing while Yoda mumbled some gibberish about a prophecy and the Senators were led around like sheep believing everything they were told.

    [Edit: these frustrations are related to viewing pleasure and not to plot per se. As one of the audience, I can't do anything with the information the movie is giving me to create a rewarding experience that was worth my nickel. I agree with Mr. Plinkett the reviewer in that I watched part 3 just to make it official that I watched them all.]
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    But that "heroic story arc" that the Original Trilogy had that you speak of is boring. I find tragedies more interesting (though, having looked at these reviews has made me realize some things I never have before, but t seems like every negative review I've read of any movie or game I like or even love makes me like it less and that disappoints me).
    Some people, a very few, have a more Shakespearean mindset about literature. But is it so bad that if it's not a tragedy then it's no good? I can get into a tragedy, if it's a good one. If it moves me in some way. If the story doesn't simply denote a series of events reading like a history lesson - Anakin got mad here, and then he got mad there, and then he fell in love there, and said stupid stuff there, and there...
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I've seen it argued in other places that the series would have done well to eject episode 1 altogether.
    Agreed; either that, or make the movies longer, because shoving Anakin's downfall into two 2-hour movies where there a lot more things going on made it rushed (though Lucas just HAD to keep it at the 2-hour length he wanted). Or, they could've just cut out some of the slack.

    Well, nobody wanted to argue with Lucas. He surrounds himself with intellectually void sycophants who nod whenever he speaks and laugh whenever he makes a lame joke. It wasn't like that in 1977.
    You make a good point here, and I've said this before. However, the Originals may have been better movies, especially for their time, but I just didn't find them interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Anakin's downfall wasn't even interesting. He was just some angry kid (whether he was 17 or 27 or whatever) who kept finding more and more excuses to get angry and want power. But getting mad at his teacher wasn't good enough. Obsessing over a dream about Padme dying wasn't good enough. I can see jealousy being a decent motive, except there was nothing so complex as a love triangle.
    There was more to it than that. I was able to write a 17,681 character (3,252 words) personal analysis of his character, because I was being tired of people complaining about him (since he was my favorite character of the entire film, right after Obi-Wan). Also keep in mind that, not only was he a slave who had animal-like logic, outside of his mother, who he hardly saw after he left to become a Jedi when he was 9, Obi-Wan (and even then, he was awfully cold with him many times), and Padme were the only ones that loved him (though he wrongfully thought the Emperor cared for him, which is why he often went to him for reassurance). Qui-Gon was nice for him for a time, but he didn't exactly love him and he died shorty after they met each other. Plus, the Jedi were very strict with him and set in their ways.

    Recall that Yoda had a bad feeling about Anakin at the end of the first installment. But none of the Jedi council listened to him. All he had to do was say "no," and history would have been very different. Why does Yoda have such a weak will? And if you stop and look at every decision made by the council, not a single one was even close to anything like common-sense and every single one of them led inexorably to more political power for Palatine. How wise were they really? And what was their whole problem anyway? Don't they get out enough and see how the world really is? Were they too reliant on the Force to tell them things? but that of course was blocked. So all they could do was sit around impotently hemming and hawing while Yoda mumbled some gibberish about a prophecy and the Senators were led around like sheep believing everything they were told.
    One of the biggest problems with the Jedi is that they were often too narrow-minded, rigid, emotionally void and repressive (in all honesty, trying to repress your feelings is not good for your psychological health), and afraid of change. Completely anti-human. They just weren't adaptable or flexible enough, and ignored emotional needs altogether. On top of that, they knew that Anakin was taken in late and wasn't trained to control his emotions, and they didn't adapt to that either. They just hoped that he would learn. And when Anakin messed up, they got mad at him.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  9. #39
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Some people, a very few, have a more Shakespearean mindset about literature. But is it so bad that if it's not a tragedy then it's no good? I can get into a tragedy, if it's a good one. If it moves me in some way. If the story doesn't simply denote a series of events reading like a history lesson - Anakin got mad here, and then he got mad there, and then he fell in love there, and said stupid stuff there, and there...
    I'm one of the few who actually connected with Anakin, I guess. Perhaps because he was Sx-dominant and an enormous Fi-user?
    MBTI: INFP
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    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Anakin's downfall wasn't even interesting. He was just some angry kid (whether he was 17 or 27 or whatever) who kept finding more and more excuses to get angry and want power. But getting mad at his teacher wasn't good enough. Obsessing over a dream about Padme dying wasn't good enough. I can see jealousy being a decent motive, except there was nothing so complex as a love triangle.

    About halfway through the second episode Anakin seemed happy enough rolling through the grass, but the next thing you know he's cutting off someone's head next to the beginning of the third installment. (No wonder it was the only Star Wars series movie rated PG-13 in the US. Egads, what has happened to Star Wars?)

    Recall that Yoda had a bad feeling about Anakin at the end of the first installment. But none of the Jedi council listened to him. All he had to do was say "no," and history would have been very different. Why does Yoda have such a weak will? And if you stop and look at every decision made by the council, not a single one was even close to anything like common-sense and every single one of them led inexorably to more political power for Palatine. How wise were they really? And what was their whole problem anyway? Don't they get out enough and see how the world really is? Were they too reliant on the Force to tell them things? but that of course was blocked. So all they could do was sit around impotently hemming and hawing while Yoda mumbled some gibberish about a prophecy and the Senators were led around like sheep believing everything they were told.

    [Edit: these frustrations are related to viewing pleasure and not to plot per se. As one of the audience, I can't do anything with the information the movie is giving me to create a rewarding experience that was worth my nickel. I agree with Mr. Plinkett the reviewer in that I watched part 3 just to make it official that I watched them all.]
    Agree with all that (though I can still enjoy the prequels, or at least parts of them). I don't think the prequels are as bad as people make them out to be, but they certainly don't hold a candle to the original trilogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    Agreed; either that, or make the movies longer, because shoving Anakin's downfall into two 2-hour movies where there a lot more things going on made it rushed (though Lucas just HAD to keep it at the 2-hour length he wanted). Or, they could've just cut out some of the slack.



    You make a good point here, and I've said this before. However, the Originals may have been better movies, especially for their time, but I just didn't find them interesting.



    There was more to it than that. I was able to write a 17,681 character (3,252 words) personal analysis of his character, because I was being tired of people complaining about him (since he was my favorite character of the entire film, right after Obi-Wan). Also keep in mind that, not only was he a slave who had animal-like logic, outside of his mother, who he hardly saw after he left to become a Jedi when he was 9, Obi-Wan (and even then, he was awfully cold with him many times), and Padme were the only ones that loved him (though he wrongfully thought the Emperor cared for him, which is why he often went to him for reassurance). Qui-Gon was nice for him for a time, but he didn't exactly love him and he died shorty after they met each other. Plus, the Jedi were very strict with him and set in their ways.



    One of the biggest problems with the Jedi is that they were often too narrow-minded, rigid, emotionally void and repressive (in all honesty, trying to repress your feelings is not good for your psychological health), and afraid of change. Completely anti-human. They just weren't adaptable or flexible enough, and ignored emotional needs altogether. On top of that, they knew that Anakin was taken in late and wasn't trained to control his emotions, and they didn't adapt to that either. They just hoped that he would learn. And when Anakin messed up, they got mad at him.
    That's all great, and I agree with you, but that's not the movies we got from Lucas. If all six movies are supposed to be "Anakin's story" as Lucas has said in interviews, then Lucas failed to tell Anakin's story adequately in the prequels.

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