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  1. #171
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I know it's not a surefire way, but when you're down 2 goals, what does it matter if you lose by 3 goals?

    I think most sport teams (football is really bad at this) play not to lose rather than to win. Which only works when you have the lead...
    If my answer didn't suffice, EffEm will provide more insight I'm sure.

  2. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Perhaps puckheads can explain something to me:

    Why don't teams pull their goalies earlier when they are down 2 or more goals? Right now the Caps are beating the Rangers 2-0 with about 4 minutes to go. Why don't the Rangers pull their goalie? Obviously nothing has worked all game, they need two goals just to force OT.

    One goal down, I get not adding an extra man, but I'd think teams would want to be more aggressive and desperate losing by that much.
    I think there are two lines of reasoning. The first, and perhaps more legit reason is that usually when you're on the power play you want your top forwards on the ice. Shifts are so short that you can't have them out there for more than a minute without tiring. The second, and to my mind bullshit reason, is the same reason that football coaches don't go for it on fourth down more often. If they don't pull the goalie/go for it, and lose, the players will be to blame. But if they DO, and lose, the coach will be to blame for his strategic decision.
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  3. #173
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    ^Predictions for game 7? I think the Rangers will take the series.

    Let's assume the cup match-up is LA/NY. Who do you feel has the better chance there?

  4. #174
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Perhaps puckheads can explain something to me:

    Why don't teams pull their goalies earlier when they are down 2 or more goals? Right now the Caps are beating the Rangers 2-0 with about 4 minutes to go. Why don't the Rangers pull their goalie? Obviously nothing has worked all game, they need two goals just to force OT.

    One goal down, I get not adding an extra man, but I'd think teams would want to be more aggressive and desperate losing by that much.
    @EffEmDoubleyou and @swordpath make good points. In addition, in four minutes you can legitimately score two and force OT so all is not lost (Billy Mosienko has the record for a hat trick in 21 seconds; the Bruins as a team scored 3 goals in 20 seconds, and you only need 2 goals to force OT).
    Whereas if you pull a goalie you've got to have perfect timing with on-the-fly line changes, perfect passes etc., with no margin for error, all probably without a whistle, because the team with an open net is likely to play extra clean so as to force those on-the-fly line changes.
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  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    @EffEmDoubleyou and @swordpath make good points. In addition, in four minutes you can legitimately score two and force OT so all is not lost (Billy Mosienko has the record for a hat trick in 21 seconds; the Bruins as a team scored 3 goals in 20 seconds, and you only need 2 goals to force OT).
    Whereas if you pull a goalie you've got to have perfect timing with on-the-fly line changes, perfect passes etc., with no margin for error, all probably without a whistle, because the team with an open net is likely to play extra clean so as to force those on-the-fly line changes.
    Then why EVER pull the goalie? Obviously there's an advantage or teams would never do it. I just don't understand why they don't do it sooner when down two or more goals. The Rangers last night didn't score a goal at all till they pulled the goalie with 2:30 remaining. But by the time they did score there was only a minute remaining and they needed two goals.

  6. #176
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Then why EVER pull the goalie? Obviously there's an advantage or teams would never do it. I just don't understand why they don't do it sooner when down two or more goals. The Rangers last night didn't score a goal at all till they pulled the goalie with 2:30 remaining. But by the time they did score there was only a minute remaining and they needed two goals.
    You win some, you lose some...

  7. #177
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    First two games for each series of the conference finals have been posted:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

  8. #178
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Then why EVER pull the goalie? Obviously there's an advantage or teams would never do it. I just don't understand why they don't do it sooner when down two or more goals. The Rangers last night didn't score a goal at all till they pulled the goalie with 2:30 remaining. But by the time they did score there was only a minute remaining and they needed two goals.
    I say that nearly every time a goalie is pulled. Why not do it at the 11 minute mark of the 3rd when you're down by one or two, for example? In a delayed penalty situation it is routinely done so why not? Puck and faceoff location are two obvious things to heed when pulling the goalie because no matter what, your extra attacker could simply become a goaltender, minus pads. The blue line has to be defended as well and this is the biggest reason (to me) why PTG doesn't work as often as it should, you end up with a third defenceman, not a fourth forward.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I say that nearly every time a goalie is pulled. Why not do it at the 11 minute mark of the 3rd when you're down by one or two, for example? In a delayed penalty situation it is routinely done so why not? Puck and faceoff location are two obvious things to heed when pulling the goalie because no matter what, your extra attacker could simply become a goaltender, minus pads. The blue line has to be defended as well and this is the biggest reason (to me) why PTG doesn't work as often as it should, you end up with a third defenceman, not a fourth forward.
    I know there's a tipping point sooner or later, teams score more empty net goals than teams do with a man advantage by pulling the goalie.

    However, the percentages do increase that you will tie or win a game by pulling a goalie.

    Pulling the goalie with 10 seconds to go doesn't do much to those percentages. 1 minute to go... 2 minutes to go... there you see an increase. I want to know how far out you can go before it becomes a negative.

  10. #180
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I know there's a tipping point sooner or later, teams score more empty net goals than teams do with a man advantage by pulling the goalie.

    However, the percentages do increase that you will tie or win a game by pulling a goalie.

    Pulling the goalie with 10 seconds to go doesn't do much to those percentages. 1 minute to go... 2 minutes to go... there you see an increase. I want to know how far out you can go before it becomes a negative.
    I just don't think its so easy to tell. Pulling the goalie could do the down team good, or it could even hurt them, all in just ten seconds. 2 minutes, the same story or it could do nothing at all. It's hit or miss to the point where I don't even think you could get good statistics on it.

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