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Thread: Prometheus

  1. #11
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Because Ridley Scott kept insisting it wasn't a prequel... but it sure as hell resembles one.
    Because the snow flake marketing appeals to the masses.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Thank you for that.

    I'd done a good deal of research on it after I saw the trailer for the first time some months ago and thought to myself, "Holy shit, they're making an Alien prequel!", but somehow I missed this one coming out (4 days ago?), even though I think I subscribed to their youtube channel. Regardless of whether it ends up being a prequel proper, it's obviously going to be fleshing out the same universe, and will have taken place before the original 'Alien'.

    Kind of a side note: does anybody have any thoughts on whether, @1:58, he's somewhat making a reference, not only to the 'Alien' universe, but to the 'Blade Runner' universe as well? During that sequence, the camera shot changes in such a way that it's completely different than the rest of the clip (you'll have to watch from the beginning to notice), which could seem to be that added emphasis to say, "yes, what you're thinking is correct... " (ftr, this is what I thought the first time I watched it; I've watched it since, a number of times, and now have no idea whether I'm reading too much into it, or whether I saw it right the first time -- my mind's tainted... [and, unfortunately, now yours probably will be, too...]). 'Blade Runner' took place in 2019 (and is also directed by Ridley Scott [for the few who do not know]), and the Replicants were, at the time of that movie, while extremely similar to humans, not quite "completely indistinguishable from us". Anyway, just a thought...

    It would be interesting, though, this late in the game, not only to flesh out his 'Alien' universe, but to even combine it with one of his other great ones. Not that he isn't more-or-less already there, but that could take him into sci-fi territorial greatness beyond any other director. The only (contemporary) person who could lay claim to anything close would be Cameron, I think, and, rather interestingly, something I just thought of, I've tended to see Cameron typed as INTJ and Scott typed as INTP. And, obviously, Scott directed 'Alien', while Cameron directed the follow-up 'Aliens' (which is a great movie as well). Cameron also started 'Terminator' and, obviously, 'Avatar'. I wonder to what extent Scott doing 'Prometheus' had to do with keeping up/surpassing Cameron in the "greatest sci-fi director of all time" competition. Does anybody know what kind of a relationship these two have?

    @Nicodemus

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    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Kind of a side note: does anybody have any thoughts on whether, @1:58, he's somewhat making a reference, not only to the 'Alien' universe, but to the 'Blade Runner' universe as well? During that sequence, the camera shot changes in such a way that it's completely different than the rest of the clip (you'll have to watch from the beginning to notice), which could seem to be that added emphasis to say, "yes, what you're thinking is correct... " (ftr, this is what I thought the first time I watched it; I've watched it since, a number of times, and now have no idea whether I'm reading too much into it, or whether I saw it right the first time -- my mind's tainted... [and, unfortunately, now yours probably will be, too...]). 'Blade Runner' took place in 2019 (and is also directed by Ridley Scott [for the few who do not know]), and the Replicants were, at the time of that movie, while extremely similar to humans, not quite "completely indistinguishable from us". Anyway, just a thought...
    The reason he looks into the camera is because the notion of replicants that are almost indistinguishable from humans is, as the uncanny valley hypothesis states, that they can have a disturbing effect on us. It is a comment for the film audience rather than the audience in the hall. I doubt he is referring to the replicants from 'Blade Runner', because 'Alien' had this one:



    The screenplay for 'Alien' was probably influenced by 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' by Philip K. Dick, on which 'Blade Runner' is based, but I am not seeing sufficient evidence to assume that Scott is actively trying to fuse these two worlds in this new 'Alien' film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I wonder to what extent Scott doing 'Prometheus' had to do with keeping up/surpassing Cameron in the "greatest sci-fi director of all time" competition. Does anybody know what kind of a relationship these two have?
    I do not know what kind of relationship they have, but I do know that Cameron's films are action movies featuring sci-fi devices rather than sci-fi films ('The Abyss' and 'Avatar' being the most sci-fi-esque ones). 'Avatar', though, apart from a few ideas and the graphics, is not a good film. Though Cameron is obviously much more into technology, Scott, for me, has already won whatever sci-fi competition these two may be in. Yet I do not expect high quality from him anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The reason he looks into the camera is because the notion of replicants that are almost indistinguishable from humans is, as the uncanny valley hypothesis states, that they can have a disturbing effect on us. It is a comment for the film audience rather than the audience in the hall. I doubt he is referring to the replicants from 'Blade Runner', because 'Alien' had this one:
    Hmm...

    Interesting reading.

    It's not what I saw, but I'll look again.

    I was talking about the shot of his back.

    When I first watched it, while the question "Did he just make a 'Blade Runner' reference?" was swirling through my head, that shot seemed completely out of place from all the previous ones.

    Just enough to make me go, "Did he just do what I think he did?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The screenplay for 'Alien' was probably influenced by 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' by Philip K. Dick, on which 'Blade Runner' is based, but I am not seeing sufficient evidence to assume that Scott is actively trying to fuse these two worlds in this new 'Alien' film.
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is "actively trying to fuse these two worlds"; I'd just say that he might have made a fun little wink to those who might think about such things.

    Considering how much attention has been paid to the way in which this film will relate to a previous universe he has created, I felt it coyly appropriate that he might take it even one step further and say, "Have you ever considered that Tyrell and Weyland might be competitors?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I do not know what kind of relationship they have, but I do know that Cameron's films are action movies featuring sci-fi devices rather than sci-fi films ('The Abyss' and 'Avatar' being the most sci-fi-esque ones).
    You would have been fun in a science fiction film class I took with my favorite professor my third year in college. These were the exact kind of discussions we had.

    Would you mind delineating the difference between the two, in your opinion?

    I used 'The Terminator' as one of the three films in my final paper (along with '2001' and 'The Animatrix') -- would be interested to hear your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    'Avatar', though, apart from a few ideas and the graphics, is not a good film.
    Agreed.

    Although, I can't quite recall how much money I wasted seeing it over and over again in theatres.

    The girlfriend loved it.

    And those graphics were amazing.

    / inferior Se

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Though Cameron is obviously much more into technology, Scott, for me, has already won whatever sci-fi competition these two may be in.
    Tbh, that was my sentiment as well.

    But I'm sure the (commercial) success of 'Avatar', while by no means the entire reason Scott decided to come back to the genre (just now), was at least enough to give him that added kick in the arse to say, "Let's show Jimmy how it's really done."

    I mean, we are talking Hollywood-sized egos here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Yet I do not expect high quality from him anymore.
    Yes, well, you've always been the pessimist between us...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is "actively trying to fuse these two worlds"; I'd just say that he might have made a fun little wink to those who might think about such things.

    Considering how much attention has been paid to the way in which this film will relate to a previous universe he has created, I felt it coyly appropriate that he might take it even one step further and say, "Have you ever considered that Tyrell and Weyland might be competitors?"
    Perhaps. But I would rather ask myself to which extent he will deal with ideas from the 'Alien' sequels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Would you mind delineating the difference between the two, in your opinion?
    The focus makes the difference, obviously. 'The Terminator', I would say, is much more interested to show the destruction and horror the Terminator brings about than to examine problems resulting from fictional science/technology. Yes, one can easily identify the latter with the former; the point is that the Terminator seems to me to be but a vehicle for the action, not the other way around (it is even clearer in the second film, which, by the way, I prefer). 'Blade Runner', quite evidently, is a whole other caliber; and I would describe 'Alien' as a fight between technology and nature, using horror elements to sow reasonable doubt about man's role as the pride of creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Although, I can't quite recall how much money I wasted seeing it over and over again in theatres.
    I spent none.

    All hail the internet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    But I'm sure the (commercial) success of 'Avatar', while by no means the entire reason Scott decided to come back to the genre (just now), was at least enough to give him that added kick in the arse to say, "Let's show Jimmy how it's really done."

    I mean, we are talking Hollywood-sized egos here.
    Scott could direct a better film, but it will neither be as commercially successful nor as crucial in developing new film technology as 'Avatar'. So the only way in which he could show Cameron "how it's really done" is, quasi, artistically. And, as I said, I doubt Cameron has much to fear in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, well, you've always been the pessimist between us...
    Well, it is due to our differences that we can have this marriage of almost Blakeian profundity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    . I wonder to what extent Scott doing 'Prometheus' had to do with keeping up/surpassing Cameron in the "greatest sci-fi director of all time" competition. Does anybody know what kind of a relationship these two have?
    I read Scott as having more S sensibilities than N (which is why I like his scifi/horror work, he tends to be very grounded). Also, Scott is a cross-genre director far more than Cameron is, so I'm not sure why he would even care about being the "greatest scifi director of all time" -- being a scifi director doesn't seem to be something he places a lot of his identity in. Alien, Blade Runner, and Legend as far as I recall are the only three of his 12-15 directed movies that were labeled as scifi, and they were early in his career.

    In comparison, a much higher percentage of Cameron's work seem to involve scifi/fantasy elements. I think only True Lies and Titanic were "non-scifi/fantasy" movies at least in the trappings. Even Strange Days (which I think he handed off to Kathryn Bigelow, his wife or ex-wife at the time?) was written/derived by him and had scifi elements.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    I'm so there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I read Scott as having more S sensibilities than N (which is why I like his scifi/horror work, he tends to be very grounded).
    I could see this.

    Funny thing is, I think you were the first person who said INTP to me (after I claimed NTJ).

    With him, it's part of the reason why I originally thought ENTJ (TeSe).

    I definitely see it with his brother.

    If he's a Sensor, what type do you think he is?

    ISTP?

    Not to put too much importance on stereotypes: but aren't ISTPs reputed for often hating sci-fi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Also, Scott is a cross-genre director far more than Cameron is, so I'm not sure why he would even care about being the "greatest scifi director of all time" -- being a scifi director doesn't seem to be something he places a lot of his identity in.
    Really?

    From everything I've seen, 'Blade Runner' is his biggest baby of them all. I doubt he's made two Director's Cuts, over a decade apart, for any of his other films. And the fact that he's coming back to do an 'Alien' prequel, or at least something within the same universe... and pretty much right after Cameron came out with Avatar... also, I think you're being a bit Ti nitpicky here: when I said "greatest sci-fi director of all time competition", it didn't mean that he only directs sci-fi, it was a credit to the fact that he has directed two of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time, films which would probably find themselves on almost any top 5 list of sci-fi films. When you directed 40% of the top 5 sci-fi films of all time, you probably qualify as one of the greatest sci-fi directors of all time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Alien, Blade Runner, and Legend as far as I recall are the only three of his 12-15 directed movies that were labeled as scifi, and they were early in his career.
    Well, while I appreciate the gift (as related as the two genres are, 'Legend' is a fantasy film), my take is different: 'Blade Runner' and 'Alien' have got to be among his best, if not certainly his best, work, and the fact that those three films are what essentially launched his career, imo, means that they are just that much more important. In fact, part of my original point is that it's interesting that he's coming back to sci-fi after all this time off, so, not only had I already acknowledged the fact that he's been doing a lot of non-sci-fi work for a long time, the fact that he's coming back to the genre is part of my thesis why this all might have something to do with Cameron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If he's a Sensor, what type do you think he is?

    ISTP?

    Not to put too much importance on stereotypes: but aren't ISTPs reputed for often hating sci-fi?
    I would think ISTP, probably. As far as your last comment:

    1. Just because all ISTPs generally get bored with scifi doesn't mean Scott isn't allowed to dabble in it or enjoy it. But as I noted, only 3 out of his 12-15 directorial expeditions have been scifi. I think he was into them because the stories were interesting to him, not because they were scifi.

    2. I don't really see Scott as into scifi as much as he is into telling a story. This is in fact why I like his movies, they're kind of "clean" movies (kind of like Michael Mann's movies); and his scifi flicks weren't so hung up on the scifi, they were still focused on story and characters. It reminds me of how Jonathan Demme -- a comedy director -- made one of the best thrillers of all time and swept the Academy Awards in 1991. He brought counter-genre sensibilities to the picture that worked.


    From everything I've seen, 'Blade Runner' is his biggest baby of them all. I doubt he's made two Director's Cuts, over a decade apart, for any of his other films. And the fact that he's coming back to do an 'Alien' prequel, or at least something within the same universe... and pretty much right after Cameron came out with Avatar... also, I think you're being a bit Ti nitpicky here: when I said "greatest sci-fi director of all time competition", it didn't mean that he only directs sci-fi, it was a credit to the fact that he has directed two of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time, films which would probably find themselves on almost any top 5 list of sci-fi films. When you directed 40% of the top 5 sci-fi films of all time, you probably qualify as one of the greatest sci-fi directors of all time.

    Well, while I appreciate the gift (as related as the two genres are, 'Legend' is a fantasy film), my take is different: 'Blade Runner' and 'Alien' have got to be among his best, if not certainly his best, work, and the fact that those three films are what essentially launched his career, imo, means that they are just that much more important. In fact, part of my original point is that it's interesting that he's coming back to sci-fi after all this time off, so, not only had I already acknowledged the fact that he's been doing a lot of non-sci-fi work for a long time, the fact that he's coming back to the genre is part of my thesis why this all might have something to do with Cameron.
    Whatever. All of this is opinion, I can't comment on it except to say what I already said; and you're welcome to believe whatever you'd like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would think ISTP, probably.
    I'll keep it under consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    2. I don't really see Scott as into scifi as much as he is into telling a story. This is in fact why I like his movies, they're kind of "clean" movies (kind of like Michael Mann's movies); and his scifi flicks weren't so hung up on the scifi, they were still focused on story and characters.
    Or, alternately, they were just well-told sci-fi stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It reminds me of how Jonathan Demme -- a comedy director -- made one of the best thrillers of all time and swept the Academy Awards in 1991. He brought counter-genre sensibilities to the picture that worked.
    Yeah, I might accept the analogy if two of Demme's first three movies were two of the greatest thrillers of all time...

    Except that, if that were the case, your argument would be a fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    All of this is opinion...
    Not really.

    A good deal of it was fact, and some of it was conjecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ...I can't comment on it except to say what I already said; and you're welcome to believe whatever you'd like.
    I know, it almost makes one wonder why you commented on it in the first place.

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