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  1. #51
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    I am excited for the Hobbit movies...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  2. #52
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    I ordered a used trilogy + hobbit from amazon. Now it will be my own... my precious!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I know this is from the first book/movie, but I was surprised and a little disappointed from a feminist perspective reading that the horse bearing the mortally wounded Frodo to Rivendell did not have a rider (Arwen was given the role in the movie). Actually, I remember finding the words Tolkein chose to describe both of the main women (Eiowen and Arwen) were curious, definitely seemed "dated" in some ways. I can't remember it all unfortunately.

    Hm. Maybe I want to re-read the books now.
    Considering he wrote the story in the 1940's, I'm not sure what you were expecting. He wrote them in England; compared to the US at that time, it was pretty impressive to give Galadriel and Arwen such independent-behaving roles. (Galadriel is actually one of the high Noldor, I think, one of the few reigning elf elders from millenia past.) Women's roles in the US were calcified in the early 50's; I'm not sure what they were like when the men were aware at war and women were doing things to support the war effort in the early 40's. Tolkien actually portrayed Eowyn very sympathetically in the sense of her being female in the culture of Rohan; she was basically being boxed in by the men at every turn despite having as brave a heart as them, and eventually her disguising herself as male was her way to basically end her own subjugation while doing honor to Theoden as best as she could. She fully expected to die when facing the Ringwraith at the Pellinor Fields (?). I thought it was a nice touch that Faramir helped tend to her healing and could see the beauty and bravery underlying the troubled exterior.

    Glorfindel was originally the elf that showed up when Frodo was dying. he put Frodo on his horse there near the end, and told it to ride. So that's why Frodo was alone. I think Arwen incorporated into the story (since she doesn't really show up in the books) was a worthwhile addition.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Considering he wrote the story in the 1940's, I'm not sure what you were expecting. He wrote them in England; compared to the US at that time, it was pretty impressive to give Galadriel and Arwen such independent-behaving roles. (Galadriel is actually one of the high Noldor, I think, one of the few reigning elf elders from millenia past.)
    Well I did think that the Eiowen killing the evil death king was pretty progressive!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I am excited for the Hobbit movies...
    I'm kind of scared.

    Jackson was hit or miss for me.

    One thing that's a huge departure is that I think he plans to chronicle the assault on Dol Gulder at the edge of Mirkwood. In The Hobbit, Gandalf disappears for part of the story -- the part where the dwarfs and Bilbo travel Mirkwood, are captured by the wood elves (legolas' people), and eventually escape to reach the Laketown. Later, we find out Galadriel, Saruman, Gandalf, and others were trying to drive out the Necromancer from Dol Gulder -- who ends up being Sauron himself. That tale is never detailed by Tolkien, but Jackson I think is planning to shoot it; I'm scared it'll end up just like the balrog, one big glorified video game adventure.

    I was disappointed when Guillermo del Toro stepped away. I much prefer his sense of the macabre and horrific to Jackson; I wept at the end of Pan's Labyrinth. (although I guess Hellboy didn't really impress me. So who knows?) He does still have a screenplay credit, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Well I did think that the Eiowen killing the evil death king was pretty progressive!
    Yeah, that was beautiful. Eowyn and Merry -- it was Merry the halfling who stabbed the Lord of the Ringwraiths with the blade of Westernesse, in his calf, and as he dropped to a knee, Eowyn coup de graced him. A woman and a hobbit, defeating the wraith who used to be a human king. It says a lot.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #56
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    You people are getting ahead of the story!

    Another reason I don't "buy" Faramir in the novel compared to the movie is Gondor is up against it. Faramir is way too relaxed and considerate for a forward military unit that believes they could very likely be headed to the complete destruction of all they know. I like grace under pressure, but the Faramir of the novel might as well be out surveying, instead of doing all he can versus the forces of darkness that will kill everyone across the river.

    The Fellowship keeps falling into the pattern of "great danger" then "safe haven" (usually with the elves). I'd think once the Fellowship was broken that pattern would also be broken, but Faramir's camp under the falls was yet another one. Things are a little too safe and easy. Without the danger of taking the Ring like in the movie, I have a hard time explaining why Faramir is even part of TTT novel, other than just to introduce him as a character. Too perfect, too noble, too safe, too out of place for a war which will mean the end of men.

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    It was part of his master plot -- let Sauron crush all the weenies, then sweep in behind and take over.

    Barring that, at least he can capture and ride his own oliphant.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #58
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    That putz?

    :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Oh man you're a huge Star Wars fan, aren't you?
    Movies, no. Expanded Universe, yes!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Movies, no. Expanded Universe, yes!
    See that just means you're a bigger Star Wars nerd.

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