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What'cha Reading?

Dr Haight

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Many years ago, Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, and that other guy, did a conversation style video which is on YT titled "The Four Horseman." It was good. They might even have turned it into a book. I don't recall.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
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The Eyes of the Dragon. Bronson Pinchot does a phenomenal job narrating.
 

Saturnal Snowqueen

Solastalgia 𓍊𓋼𓍊𓋼𓍊
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Reading Understood Betsy relives me of my anxiety. Hearing queer so many times on a different context(it was 1916) is bizarre.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
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Im waiting on Dark Tower VII still four weeks away from being able to listen to it
 

Tennessee Jed

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I'm reading From Dawn to Decadence: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life by Jacques Barzun (published in 2000). Ostensibly it's an historical survey of Western culture from 1500 to the present by a master historian. And for that reason alone it's supposed to be an excellent read. Reviews of the book at Amazon are quite glowing.

But I'm particularly interested in Barzun's ideas on Decadence. Barzun starts the book with the thesis that Western culture is currently in decline (in a state of Decadence), and he traces the cultural threads that got us into this dead end starting all the way back from the Renaissance and Protestant Reformation.

From Barzun's introduction: "Borrowing widely from other lands, thriving on dissent and originality, the West has been the mongrel civilization par excellence. But in spite of patchwork and conflict it has pursued characteristic purposes--that is its unity--and now these purposes, carried out to their utmost possibility, are bringing about its demise. This ending is shown by the deadlocks of our time: for and against nationalism, for and against individualism, for and against the high arts, for and against strict morals and religious belief." (p. xix)

Usually studies on Decadence focus on the fall of the Roman empire, Baudelaire's Paris, Oscar Wilde's London, and Berlin between the two world wars. So it's interesting to see someone apply the concept to modern Western society and take a "holistic" view by tracing the development of modern Decadence across the span of centuries.

It's an 800-page book, and so far I'm only 150 pages in. So I'll be at it for a while to come. But it's a great review of Western culture in general. Also, I read Decadence: A Very Short Introduction by David Weir (pub. 2018) as preparation, so I'm up on the traditional ideas about Decadence, and I'm invested in seeing where Barzun goes with it.

It has my interest piqued enough that I don't mind putting some time into the book and enjoying the ride.
 
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Tennessee Jed

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Many years ago, Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, and that other guy, did a conversation style video which is on YT titled "The Four Horseman." It was good. They might even have turned it into a book. I don't recall.

I'm an atheist, but I'm not into New Atheism. New Atheism is too militant for my tastes; when it comes to organized religion, I say "Live and let live." So I never got into the Four Horsemen thing.
 
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Dr Haight

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It's simply a conversation many years ago from the predominant authors on the subject of Atheism. As I recall the range of topic is vast and very interesting. But how you spend your time is purely up to you. To me, knowledge is knowledge. And I am always interested in learning perspectives that oppose my own. The "Scientific approach," if you will.

Also, "From Dawn to Decadence . . . " is a great book. Read it many years ago. I encourage you to keep pushing through all those pages. It's worth your time.
 

Tennessee Jed

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[snipped...] To me, knowledge is knowledge. And I am always interested in learning perspectives that oppose my own. The "Scientific approach," if you will. [...snipped]
I agree. I was going to end my previous post with the comment that I'll probably look into the Four Horsemen in more detail at some later date but it's not high on my priority list.

I recently read Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes. That kind of New Age "witchy woman" chest-beating ultra-feminist tripe is usually anathema to me. But the book is a classic of the type, so I figured I needed to sit down with it and read it through, even if it made me puke a little bit in the back of my mouth each time I picked it up.

In the end, it was better than I thought it would be. Pinkola Estes is a legitimate Jungian psychotherapist with a PhD, and she had some interesting observations on female archetypes. But still, it was a grind. A real labor of hate... :)

But yeah, I agree with you. If you encounter a classic in a field that you disagree with, then you have to sit down and give it a fair shot.

[snipped...] Also, "From Dawn to Decadence . . . " is a great book. Read it many years ago. I encourage you to keep pushing through all those pages. It's worth your time.

Definitely. I'm in it till the bitter end.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
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Walter Paddock...The Walking Dude... Damn. Did not see it ending that way. I suppose technically That's exactly what he deserves, but...it made me sad. Dispite everything I've always been able to see a bit of myself in that particular villain. Though I would never assume I wasnt a step behind, so I doubt I would have put myself in that situation, but I'll had it to Steven. It was horrifying and cosmically terrifying. It was a fate that stung, more than any other he's experienced thus far.
 

Tennessee Jed

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It's simply a conversation many years ago from the predominant authors on the subject of Atheism. As I recall the range of topic is vast and very interesting. But how you spend your time is purely up to you. To me, knowledge is knowledge. And I am always interested in learning perspectives that oppose my own. The "Scientific approach," if you will. [...snipped]
Just as follow-up: I've linked an article below about how one of your "four horsemen" (Dawkins) is now admitting that he might have been wrong about New Atheism.

According to the article, it sounds like Dawkins is now more or less where I'm at: Religion is a bunch of lies, but one has to respect the institutions and their largely positive effect on society through the ages. Hence an attitude of attacking the institutions of religion on all fronts (such as New Atheism prescribes) has its drawbacks.

Link to article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ar-BB1kZdRj

By the way, I checked out the Four Horsemen video you mentioned. I got about halfway through, but it bored me and I quit. Same old, same old. Whining about how religious people are inconsistent in their beliefs, etc. No kidding. It's always been like that. But see above on my opinions about the net positive effect of religious institutions on human society as a whole, etc.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I haven't had the chance to make it too far into the book mentioned earlier yet.

I do think religion is guilty of indoctrinating children with harmful beliefs that they often retain into adulthood. This a serious problem.

Even so, I am skeptical of antitheism. I do not think I will come around on that. You know what I hate the most about religions? The attempts at proselytization and converting people; constantly finding new ways to bother people. When they befriend someone with the hope of scoring another notch in their belt by winning another convert. Why on Earth would I want to start doing the same thing? How does it help matters to start emulating one of the worst parts of religion? I could never do such a thing.
 
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