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  1. #481
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I guess I saw some of that as having other purposes. The biggest question....why no karen?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #482

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The biggest question....why no karen?
    Maybe they couldn't get the actress. But really, I'm a big fan of the show and I don't think I'd recognize Karen if I tripped over her. In fact, I had forgotten her name until you just reminded me of it. Maybe that's why?
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  3. #483
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I guess I just figured this is not a deep show, so the things the hallucinations were saying was about on par with what I expect from the show.

    But now that you mention it, there have been other episodes that were supposed to be full of symbols and shit that were better crafted, IMO.

  4. #484
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Yeah, see, the absence of Karen told me they were not necessarily doing a "what's most important to Tyresse" character study, potentially. It looks like they picked characters for various reasons, one being the recognizability to the audience. We know Bob. We know Beth. We know the girls. Everyone remembers the Guv'nor. And it's been recent enough that we remember that episode with the jerkoff from Terminus and know what he almost did to Judith and remember how Tyresse handled it. But no one remembers Karen. She wasn't on very long, she had no established characteristics that I can recall, and she mainly existed as a symbol that Tyresse could lock his hate on, from a writer's perspective, driving the plot. (and it's either ironic or purposeful that he doesn't really address her much after he forgives Carol. You wonder whether HE remembers her face or whether she was just something tangible he could direct his anger towards, justifying that expression of pain since he's otherwise so kind and gentle.)

    But there are other interpretations too, I guess. For example:


    - All the people who appeared kinds of examples of the way the world has gone, tying into the radio where Tyresses' dad made him listen constantly so that he wouldn't forget how horrible the world was and so that he could survive. Bob got screwed by some horrible stuff. Beth got screwed. The girls got screwed. [I would classify all of these characters as the "good" or the "least tainted" in the group.] And the Guv'nor and the dipshit are representative of the "world" and how bad it is, demanding that he acknowledge and follow the world's rules in order to survive.

    The reality is that Tyresse was just tired of it. Tired of the noise and tired of all the darkness. He had trouble living in that world, and it made him do things that he didn't like to do. He was a big-hearted guy who didn't want to become the kind of person who could survive, full of potential violence and feeling his soul grow darker. (Rick's a good guy too, theoretically... but look at Rick now. Rick has gained power by accepting his "dark side"... but Tyresse can't really do that, it feels wrong to him.)

    Look at how Tyresse ended: He was staring at pictures of Noah's dead two brothers, and he got bit by a kid zombie in a bedroom. He shouldn't have made the mistake; he did; it's because he's one of the "good" people, as in the "very good" .... and you know what Hemingway says about the good and the gentle: "...those [the world] will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.”

    I think Tyresse was too good and too gentle to live indefinitely in that world. He did some really good things with his life After, as long as he could, and... then he died. He didn't want to live in that world anymore. "Turn the radio off. I don't need to listen to this anymore." And his vision represented the "good who died early" and "the bad who represented the darkness of the world and what he'd have to become to live."


    - From a purely pyschological view, he's bleeding out, he's not thinking straight, and it's almost like a dream with him bouncing back and forth. His memories are jumbled, and as in a dream, it takes the most recent relevant tangible imagery and assigns it to roles of battles occurring in your psyche. I didn't exactly expect one-to-one representation or coherence -- these particular people stood out in his thoughts and they each got assigned roles to these various philosophies in his head.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  5. #485
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The reality is that Tyresse was just tired of it. Tired of the noise and tired of all the darkness. He had trouble living in that world, and it made him do things that he didn't like to do. He was a big-hearted guy who didn't want to become the kind of person who could survive, full of potential violence and feeling his soul grow darker.
    I agree with this. This was how his character was built up in earlier episodes.

    In light of this, I saw the "listen to the news" comment in a different way. Not to learn about how horrible the world is, but to be informed/involved in order to enable him to participate as a contributing member of society. And I think this upbringing was conflicting him now that the world had gone to hell (he was tired of living, but felt an obligation to carry on to support the group).

    So when he got bit, I saw the hallucinations as the possible tracks of thought going through his mind:

    1) Just give up and let go (Beth and the girls with their "it's better over here").
    2) Choose to live, but harden up, you are of no value if you are soft (The Guv and the Terminus guy with their messages)
    3) Choose to just carry on and be a good citizen (Bob with his message that shit happens regardless of your actions - although I am a bit vague on this one, the Bob message could also have been - it's OK to let go since shit will happen despite you doing your best).

    Since previous episodes indicated it wasn't in Tyresse nature to "get mean", two out of the three hallucination thought lines (or possibly all three depending on you look at them) were leading to the "I don't want to listen any more" outcome.

    Of course, I wasn't sure of this as I watched the episode, I was still uncertain if Tyresse would pull through or not until right at the end, although it did seem unlikely.
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  6. #486
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Latest episode was another borefest. Suddenly they are all out of food and water. They also suddenly became very tired. We are shown how tough the world has become. I wouldn't if it was 5th season already!

    And now they met some guy who seems to be doing fine, a little too fine. They probably have a community with strict rules. Rick will clash with the leader. That's my prediction.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Latest episode was another borefest. Suddenly they are all out of food and water. They also suddenly became very tired. We are shown how tough the world has become. I wouldn't if it was 5th season already!
    I actually liked much of it, after all the crazy stuff lately. But I like psych dramas and think a "checkup of emotional state" for each character is fine, as long as the next episode isn't like that. I was on edge the entire episode because I couldn't really tell if anything bad was coming; the reality is that any second, something could go horribly wrong and you could be dead, so there's no real respite. Sasha didn't help much either.

    I also laughed at the shot with the dog collar in the foreground.

    And now they met some guy who seems to be doing fine, a little too fine. They probably have a community with strict rules. Rick will clash with the leader. That's my prediction.
    Genius. Sheer genius.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I actually liked much of it, after all the crazy stuff lately. But I like psych dramas and think a "checkup of emotional state" for each character is fine, as long as the next episode isn't like that. I was on edge the entire episode because I couldn't really tell if anything bad was coming; the reality is that any second, something could go horribly wrong and you could be dead, so there's no real respite. Sasha didn't help much either.
    I agree with your assessment - I actually liked it. I just think they should have spaced it from the previous episode, two episodes in a row focusing almost entirely on the psychological meaning of the world they live in is a bit of a spread.

    Regarding the new guy, I am more curious with how he knew rick is the leader of the group - is there someone who got separated from the group who can still be alive? It's getting difficult to keep track...

  9. #489
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I don't remember. I think the first two seasons, I can't recall anyone who would still be alive. I guess we could have Woodbury survivors or Terminus survivors.

    The fact he knew Rick by name isn't a good thing, IMO... or that he knew where to find Rick or that Maggie and Sasha were in Rick's "group." Considering none of the characters know him.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #490
    Pubic Enemy #1 Crabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Latest episode was another borefest. Suddenly they are all out of food and water. They also suddenly became very tired. We are shown how tough the world has become. I wouldn't if it was 5th season already!

    And now they met some guy who seems to be doing fine, a little too fine. They probably have a community with strict rules. Rick will clash with the leader. That's my prediction.
    i agree. i missed last week's episode so i had to play catch up last night. both episodes were pretty boring. i thought it was funny when rick said, "we are the walking dead" because that sums up the plot these days: walking, walking, and more walking. hate to say it, but i'm starting to lose interest in this show. tyrese was one of the more likable characters so it's sad to see him go. i thought someone was going to commit suicide because of the stress. we haven't really seen anyone go completely insane yet, like develop a severe psychological disorder. that would be interesting.

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