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The Walking Dead- CONTAINS SPOILERS!

Stigmata

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I still follow it (pretty much I'll watch each episode once -- in the early years, some of the episodes were rewatch-worthy), but I won't read your spoiler yet since I didn't see tonight's episode (I already blew off Oscars to watch True Detective's season finale).

I think this season is a marked improvement from prior seasons, the Whisperers plot is more harrowing and disturbing because it's changing all the rules. And it was good to shake up the cast by getting of a few folks and seeing how that impacted the pecking order of the characters on the show. Overall, it's just a better show.

But they still have a big problem with not knowing what to do with characters except for killing them. They need to give individual characters actual arcs to follow, versus just responding to "zombie problem of the week" and then finally expiring when they have a bad spot of luck. It got so predictable -- it's like, "oh wait, they're doing something with the character this episode, they will be killed off by the end of it."

I think that with the addition of Angela Kang, they've finally realized that the audience will eventually lose interest if you only have characters serve as zombie fodder, especially without giving them any sort of meaningful backstory or character development until such a time as they meet their fate. I guess it's just a shame it took them until the 10th(?) season of the show to come to this realization. That said, this new direction is remarkably better than anything they've produced in the last several years. Also, the pacing of the series seems much better than the last few seasons.



 

Totenkindly

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sorry, crossover post... i was constructing offline.

My thoughts on Sunday's episode are mixed. I am definitely happy with the season, even if it feels too little too late to save the show in the end – it’s a vast improvement over the recent prior seasons, and it DEFINITELY isn’t sitting on the same plot points at the moment. I think the time jump forward was a smart idea. Having some of the cast no longer around also allowed prior useless characters to rejigger their involvement and maybe have something to offer as well.

I feel like we are still not being told all the background on why the three communities are so separate in the current timeline considering they are all essentially being run by folks are in the past were dependable allies who care about each other.

 

Totenkindly

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I think that with the addition of Angela Kang, they've finally realized that the audience will eventually lose interest if you only have characters serve as zombie fodder, especially without giving them any sort of meaningful backstory or character development until such a time as they meet their fate. I guess it's just a shame it took them until the 10th(?) season of the show to come to this realization. That said, this new direction is remarkably better than anything they've produced in the last several years. Also, the pacing of the series seems much better than the last few seasons.

I wish they had gotten the current showrunner about 4-5 seasons ago. They've struggled for a number of seasons to have a viable showrunner, they lucked out at least in having source material to depend on.



 

Totenkindly

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From Episode 12 review by Vulture:



it seems like they are trying to set up some comparison between Michonne and Alpha here:


Judith #SpeaksTruth for the smackdown. She's like the MVP of Walking Dead this season.

There's also a great moment at the end which I then feel like the show (as typical) cops out:


Still a better season than past, the pacing is much better. But it still has these inherent problems it can't seem to shake.
 

Totenkindly

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Caught up on Episode 13 (was kinda "ehhh") and Episode 14 (which at least explains rationally why Michonne is so anti-outsiders now -- but damn, that wait to find out wasn't actually interesting, it was just annoying and left a lot of confusion over multiple prior episodes as to why she was behaving as she was).

Didn't watch 15 yet. I guess some stuff goes down. And oh boy, the showrunners say "lots of surprises in the finale" -- well, it's the finale. So that's expected, right? Although I bet they won't be much of a surprise, nothing ever really is anymore.

I can objectively say this season is better, but I'm not really feeling this show much even with its occasional good moments. About the most interesting thing in Episode 14 to me was Michonne's conversation with Negan... maybe because there's at least some moral complexity there. Michonne's flipping out, Negan's pretty rational and yet we know how bad he can truly be... so it's a nice juxtaposition.
 

Totenkindly

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Watching Episode 15.

It's nice in terms of seeing the characters coming together, but again... kind of predictable, lol. That cold open? You just know how that's gonna end. And then there's a heavy-handed conversation about twenty minutes in that as soon as you hear what they're suggesting, you know exactly how this episode will end (if you didn't already guess). Wow. I mean, to me, it's merely a question of how much blood is getting spilled, not whether or not.

Edit: Okay, I finished episode 15 and in its favor, that WASN'T the ending I expected. I'm not sure how I feel about it, and it still has that problem on the show where they don't seem to know what to do with characters aside from murdering them, and I'm not sure what the seasonal dramatic arc is here, but... again, it was still a bit unexpected, so... kudos on that.

Anyone know of a way I can watch the finale online easily?
You mean for free, I take it? ;)

 

Tellenbach

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The whole season is about creating scenarios for Carol to annihilate baddies; she's gonna show alpha and beta some purdy flowers next season. Negan is lucky he didn't have to face Carol cause he'd be a puddle of burnt goo somewhere if he did.
 

Totenkindly

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So as far as Alpha's wall goes
 

Totenkindly

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Season 9 finale was okay. I appreciate them not sensationalizing stuff for it (like they often do), at the same time it kinda "eh" in terms of interest.

I guess the irony is that Negan has become more interesting now that he's not the Big Bad, he's just another character who is somewhat unpredictable; he's still got edge to him and doesn't necessarily want to buddy up to everyone. he's got good qualities; he's got bad qualities; and no one will forget the awful things he did, yet he's done some good stuff now as well. I find the relationship between him and Judith really interesting, he's always taken an interest in Rick's kids. I ran across an accidental spoiler (I wish reviewers didn't just toss random comic book stuff into their show reviews, without warning) about a comic plot point involving Negan and the Whisperers, that is kind of fascinating, and I think it all leads back to the "fight fire with fire" concept...

The whole "Blizzard" in Alexandria thing felt a bit off, although I guess it happens from time to time. Not sure about Alexandria per se, just VA and DC in general. But it's not SUPER-common, it's more like every few years and sometimes a lot of years without anything. The way they made it sound and look in the show made it appear to be a harsh storm that would last a few days, but typically we just get blitzed for 24-36 hours, and then if there's more snow, it happens in bursts. For some reason the show's storm felt more like something in the higher north of USA / lower Canada... like something I'd see in Fargo. (Note: They filmed it on sound stages in GA, with various types of fake snow and paraffin wax for ice.) It just did not feel like a typical mid-Atlantic snowstorm.

Nicotero directed it, which is why the episode had such a focus on special effects and/or zombie appearance and/or 'new zombie attack sequence.' He was always into that kind of thing.

As far as crossing the boundary:



Character plot points:


I never watched Talking Dead after TWD airs, although I did watch a few minutes last night just to get a grasp of the showrunner. The whole Chris Hardwick thing didn't help either; I'm not sure of what to make of that mess, and even if he was "exonerated" by AMC, I still get a bad taste in my mouth when I see him. He also just seems to be a kind of over-dramatic fawning fanboy type. I don't know if that's a fair appraisal, but that's how I feel watching him -- he's a little too much for me to take.
 

Stigmata

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So as far as Alpha's wall goes

Finally got around to watching the last two episodes last night.

 

Doctor Cringelord

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I just caught up on netflix. Season 9 was a huge improvement over season 8. I actually found it the most enjoyable one since season 5. I love Negan now, and Judith is an adorable little badass. I didn't care all that much for Negan before. He was okay, but I didn't get the massive hype and love for the character. But he's easily become one of the most interesting on the show. I don't find his arc so far all that implausible, because Negan was never portrayed as pure evil like The Governor or the Terminus people (and even they weren't what I'd call pure evil). His character has always existed in a huge grey area, and when you look at some of the things Rick and crew had to do to survive (including things they had to do to some of Negan's people), he's really not all that different from them. Perhaps the prime difference being his major arrogance and taking enjoyment in the punishments he had to dole out.

I only wish they’d done more big time jumps like this back in the earlier seasons. Certain ordeals and storylines have been drawn out over multiple seasons, and it got especially tedious with the Saviors conflict pretty much taking up two and a half seasons, when it could've been resolved earlier. I hope season 10 continues with another mid-season time jump. With Danai Gurira leaving partway through, it would be the perfect opportunity for another one, only I'd do a smaller one, perhaps 6 months to a year, so they don't have to keep recasting Judith. The time jumps also make me wish they'd kept Carl alive. It had gotten to the point where it was hard to suspend disbelief with the actor's growth versus the relatively short timeline (I think by the end of season 8, it's been only, what, 2 years and some change? I mean, the actor could believably pass for a 14 or 15 year old, but asking us to believe he was only 12 was a bit much. So a bigger time jump, perhaps between seasons 3 and 4, would've brought his show character more in line with the actor's age--said jump also would've made it more believable that Rick was so invested in holding on to the prison at all costs. His current age would've actually fit pretty nicely into where the series currently is (approximately 9.5 years from the initial outbreak by the end of season 9, at least based on the showrunners' reports and the timeline on the walking dead fan wiki). So it seems they missed an opportunity in killing him off. I would have liked the show to evolve into being about the next generation, with the focus being increasingly on Rick's kids and some of the other younger characters. With Judith, we see someone who is an apocalypse baby and will never know any other world, only stories the elders tell. That is interesting to contrast with older kids like Carl who have clear memories of the before and after.

I also like that such a huge time jump distinguishes the series from being a run-of-the-mill zombie outbreak story, considering the majority of film media involves outbreaks in the early stages. Now it's feeling more and more like something Romero would've envisioned, showing us the world years on from the initial outbreak.

Regarding the story



It's also eerie how much the new Judith looks like Lori. Pretty good casting there.
 
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Totenkindly

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I did not read the comic book but would still run into spoilers. So yeah, keep an eye on Negan and the Whisperers. The show doesn't necessarily follow the book (obviously) but it tries to at least hit some of the major plot points. [I think a civilized society might not know how to handle an austere and deadly community like the Whisperers, which is why hard-ass folks like Negan still have value.]

I think Negan's problem was that the show was obsessed with him redundantly for 2.5 seasons. He was terrifying for maybe a season's worth, then it was just like "get on with it already." He never was a truly 'evil' guy and I like how even in a potentially redemptive arc he's still edgy and himself, he actually hasn't changed a ton... he's just eased up a bit. He actually adjusts to reality, he can acknowledge that his way didn't work and he's no longer in charge, but he's still going to be himself. And he does actually like Judith, just like he liked Carl. It's the weirdest (but maybe not) thing in the world that he ended up being a loosely surrogate father for Rick's kids while Rick was obsessed with other things.

Michonne's been mostly static for years as well too. Love her as a character, don't like how they didn't really do much with her. The show seems notorious for just putting characters on repeat until it decides to milk them with a death sequence to give them meaning again. I'm not really fond of promoting departures. I'm like, "just get rid of her before the season then," it just feels like one more ramped-up dramatic cycle where you already know what's going to happen. Then again, the show also has the problem of going the other way -- like when they axed Jesus without any fanfare whatsoever. It wasn't emotional, it was more like, "wait, what just happened. Really?"

I watch it because I've watched everything, but I'm just on a watch-each-episode-once cycle at this point, and I don't watch the spinoffs. Season 9 was definitely a step up (go Angela Kang!) but could be too little too late. The show has been in decline for some time.
 

Stigmata

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As others have said, the major problem with the Negan arch was that it took entirely way too long to develop. You literally had an entire half a season dedicated to trying to track him, only to highlight how elusive he was and how devoted his followers were.

Negan, as a character, and Jeffrey Dean Morgan's portrayal , was great, yet it's hard to keep even that momentum in tact over 2 seasons. I've thoroughly enjoyed most of the post time-jump story line, and it's clear how much better the writing is now and how much better the show seems to flow now. I kinda went from continuing to watch mostly out of habit to being quite engaged in it again.
 

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I think Negan's problem was that the show was obsessed with him redundantly for 2.5 seasons. He was terrifying for maybe a season's worth, then it was just like "get on with it already." He never was a truly 'evil' guy and I like how even in a potentially redemptive arc he's still edgy and himself, he actually hasn't changed a ton... he's just eased up a bit. He actually adjusts to reality, he can acknowledge that his way didn't work and he's no longer in charge, but he's still going to be himself. And he does actually like Judith, just like he liked Carl. It's the weirdest (but maybe not) thing in the world that he ended up being a loosely surrogate father for Rick's kids while Rick was obsessed with other things.


I liked the buildup to Negan. But once he'd been introduced, I think the all out war arc could've been compressed into the second half of season 7. There was a lot of filler through 7 and 8, there's no good reason they couldn't have done away with some of that and compressed the war.

Michonne's been mostly static for years as well too. Love her as a character, don't like how they didn't really do much with her. The show seems notorious for just putting characters on repeat until it decides to milk them with a death sequence to give them meaning again. I'm not really fond of promoting departures. I'm like, "just get rid of her before the season then," it just feels like one more ramped-up dramatic cycle where you already know what's going to happen. Then again, the show also has the problem of going the other way -- like when they axed Jesus without any fanfare whatsoever. It wasn't emotional, it was more like, "wait, what just happened. Really?"


I understood some of her reversion to hard ass in season 9, once they'd explained it via flashbacks, but overall I think they've done about all they can do with her. I'll be sad to see her go, but it's necessary. I did like her interactions with Negan, in how they sort of come to an understanding by the end. I think her, Judith and Negan were the best part of season 9. While meanwhile I really couldn't care less about stuff like the Gabriel-Rosita-Sadiq-Eugene love quadrangle, and found it hard to care about Henry or Enid. And Tara was just wasted through the last several seasons, so her demise wouldn't have even affected me if this weren't someone who'd been with the group since the Georgia days.

I watch it because I've watched everything, but I'm just on a watch-each-episode-once cycle at this point, and I don't watch the spinoffs. Season 9 was definitely a step up (go Angela Kang!) but could be too little too late. The show has been in decline for some time.

I really dig the new direction, but I do share fears it's too little too late. This is the sort of drastic timejump that really should have been introduced earlier in the series. Then they should've done them periodically, every time a major conflict was resolved.

I have found it difficult to follow FTWD. It is basically a void-filler when I'm waiting for more TWD. I just find it harder to care about those characters. I'm in the process of catching up on it now. What's interesting is...

 

Doctor Cringelord

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TIMELINE of TWD/FTWD TV UNIVERSE

I made the following Timeline guesstimate of key events. Based in part on the timeline at TWD fan wiki, which itself is based on both official reports from showrunners and extrapolations made from series dialogue. I'm a bit of a junky for fictional timelines, really this is more for my benefit, as it helps put it all in perspective when watching this show, and especially FTWD, most of which takes place before Rick's group even gets to the CDC center in Atlanta, which is why I didn't bother trying to cram FTWD events into this, unless involving a crossover. Spoilered just in case. And whatever you do, never rely on Carl's appearance in the series when trying to determine number of years passed. Just ignore Carl altogether.

TIMELINE:

 
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It was a breath of fresh air to write Rick and Maggie out of the show. I never liked Maggie. Rick has an oppressive energy that drags down the show. Plus he bores me after so many seasons. I'd accidentally come across spoilers that said that Rick died in an easily avoidable situation. People were disappointed that just some zombies took him out in the end. I would've preferred to see him choke to death on a peanut. Or if during season 1, we'd found out he was allergic to ginger and then, after someone baked cookies for him in season 9, he died from an allergic reaction. That would've been awesome. But I guess they wanted to leave the door open for him to come back later.

Well, I don't think crazy trash bitch could've taken Rick to a helicopter without anyone noticing.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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It was a breath of fresh air to write Rick and Maggie out of the show. I never liked Maggie. Rick has an oppressive energy that drags down the show. Plus he bores me after so many seasons. I'd accidentally come across spoilers that said that Rick died in an easily avoidable situation. People were disappointed that just some zombies took him out in the end. I would've preferred to see him choke to death on a peanut. Or if during season 1, we'd found out he was allergic to ginger and then, after someone baked cookies for him in season 9, he died from an allergic reaction. That would've been awesome. But I guess they wanted to leave the door open for him to come back later.

Well, I don't think crazy trash bitch could've taken Rick to a helicopter without anyone noticing.

Yeah, agree on Rick. And Maggie had run her course. We'll probably see both of them return in the movie spinoff.

I don't know how no one seems to notice or wonder too much about the helicopters. Like you'd think it would be a major topic of discussion amongst the community leaders. "I dunno, maybe we should investigate, send scouting parties in the direction they were seen flying, maybe see if there's another community somewhere."



Also, unrelated, but what the hell ever happened to Heath? Did he end up wherever Rick went, or are we supposed to just assume he was bitten and wandered off to join a horde?
 
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Yeah, agree on Rick. And Maggie had run her course. We'll probably see both of them return in the movie spinoff.

I don't know how no one seems to notice or wonder too much about the helicopters. Like you'd think it would be a major topic of discussion amongst the community leaders. "I dunno, maybe we should investigate, send scouting parties in the direction they were seen flying, maybe see if there's another community somewhere."



Also, unrelated, but what the hell ever happened to Heath? Did he end up wherever Rick went, or are we supposed to just assume he was bitten and wandered off to join a horde?

I forgot all about Heath. I was really disappointed when he was out of the show, cause I liked him. I looked up what happened to him - The Walking Dead Boss Confirms the Fate of Heath | Den of Geek. I don't know what the show is going to do with him, so this might be a spoiler.

I forgot about Fear the Walking Dead too. I was watching it last year and quit halfway through Season 2. I'm glad you mentioned it because it gives me more Walking Dead things to watch. Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing Morgan in that one. I read another blog that said that Fear the Walking Dead crossed over into Walking Dead at the end of season 9. It's in the part where Rick is talking on his radio at the end - Did Fear The Walking Dead Already Secretly Crossover With Rick?.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking I'd be concerned about those helicopters. I might have gone scouting, but probably not. I'd suggest it to other people, so I didn't have to deal with zombies.
 

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I forgot all about Heath. I was really disappointed when he was out of the show, cause I liked him. I looked up what happened to him - The Walking Dead Boss Confirms the Fate of Heath | Den of Geek. I don't know what the show is going to do with him, so this might be a spoiler.

I forgot about Fear the Walking Dead too. I was watching it last year and quit halfway through Season 2. I'm glad you mentioned it because it gives me more Walking Dead things to watch. Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing Morgan in that one. I read another blog that said that Fear the Walking Dead crossed over into Walking Dead at the end of season 9. It's in the part where Rick is talking on his radio at the end - Did Fear The Walking Dead Already Secretly Crossover With Rick?.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking I'd be concerned about those helicopters. I might have gone scouting, but probably not. I'd suggest it to other people, so I didn't have to deal with zombies.

Now I feel I need to re-watch season 9 because I missed the detail about the radio chatter.
 
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