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What-cha-what-cha-what-cha Watched?

Totenkindly

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Ended up running across the Challenger four-episode miniseries on Netflix last night, watched half, then ended up watching the other half until about 3am. (Stupid, but... I knew I was sleeping in. Plus I just needed to escape.)

I did not see it live, not as 17% of the country did -- although my generation might have caught it if they were running it in school as part of a historic event thing. (But most kids would have been at lunch). I was home sick that day, no one else was there, and I remember coming down to eat something and turning on the TV since I was there.. and it must have been right after it happened (since the launch was at 11:38am). Mind-boggling, in part, because like the series is suggesting, NASA had been trying to brand space travel as safe and talking up the possibilities, without reaffirming how dangerous it could be.

It was to the point as Netflex show said that they were sending up a civilian (a teacher), and what I realized in the series was that Peter Billingsley was being groomed to go up once they might have been able to spring for a kid next. It was all again a push to normalize space travel, but it seems to have been a managerial dream, not an engineer dream.

In actuality, they were way behind schedule, had pitched a lot more trips per year to Congress (to get funding) than actually being realized, and that all played into why the fucking managers kept pushing to meet schedule. No, I don't think it specifically came from Reagan; it was more the dynamics of the budgeting and Congressional approval.

Anyway (and I knew this from some articles a few years back), the O-rings had been problematic esp in cold temperatures and had shown signs of failure (on occasion disturbing levels) on past launches. Basically the solid fuel thrusters were assembled from cylindrical pieces and where the seams are on the structure if where the O-rings would make a strong seal to prevent leakage. Except as it turns out the material was not as resilient as it needed to be esp when the temp dropped, and there were signs of O-rings melting and/or burning through on some launches.

To redesign the o-ring would take two years of redevelopment, which they didn't want to do due to budgeting from Congress and the promises they had made and already being behind.

The week of the Challenger launch, they had already failed to launch a few times. First day, due to weather (which ended up being clear, it was just a bad weather call), and then second there were issues with a door not working properly. On the third day, when they figured it would be scrubbed due to it being SO cold in Florida that day that they let the pipes run water all night to prevent freezing and thus putting 1-2' icicles all over the structure, they got a team to come in for hours and remove all the ice and decided to push the launch anyway.

Back at the contractor, the engineers had recommended a no-go the prior night, due to the O-ring issue + the fact that it was only approved down to about 43F degrees before it could fail... and the temperature was supposed to be cold (and ended up being 18F). The material wasn't resilient enough to maintain the seal at that temperature, which could result in burn-through once it shifted, did not flex to the gap, and gas ignited. The relevant engineering reps then were basically bullied by management to sign off anyway, despite their concerns. Some of the engineers had been fretting over EACH flight going up in fear over the O-ring issue and predicted a failure would be catastrophic. NASA wanted to launch, so launch they did. The crew didn't know.

Basically the O-ring failed on lift-off -- there are puffs of smoke on the footage signifying the burn-through of a 70-degree arc of both O-rings (primary and backup). [Note: This is the time when the engineers expected the o-rings to fail, where the metal is buckling and the o-rings could not flex enough to preserve the seal. They were ecstatic when the shuttle actually got into the air, because they thought it had survived at that point.] Weirdly, the heat actually generated some kind of metallic crust seal that welded the hole shut as it was leaving the ground and so the breach was temporarily plugged. Of course, at that point it's all a done deal anyway: once the solid-state boosters engage in this design, there is no way to stop them for 2 solid minutes; there are extraction/escape scenarios planned after the thrusters end (involved in piloting the shuttle back) but not until two minutes in and everything separates.

Unfortunately, the wind shear that day was far worse than normal weather. There is a powerback of thrusters after liftoff due to the denser atmosphere, from 103% capacity to around 45% capacity. The thrusters are typically reengaged back up to full max around 70 seconds. In this case, at 73 seconds into the launch, the throttle was opened up, and the temporarily metallic "clot" or seal -- due to the large thrust + the nasty wind shear conditions -- flexed the metal enough that it broke open, leaving a large hole. This is when the fuel started to burn through the gap, and in a few seconds the structure ruptured, the engines turned and hit the main fuel canister which exploded, and the engines flew off in different directions still firing.

The Challenger itself wasn't blown up, but it was flying SO fast that it tumbled broadside into the air stream and was torn apart rapidly from g-force; the crew cabin which was designed to survive that level of force (which in this case might have been a bad thing) kept arcing up to something like 65K feet, then arc'ed down and plummeted into the ocean, hitting at about 200mph and shattering. There was nothing the crew could have done to fly anything because the Challenger was ripped apart quickly, they were just passengers in the debris. Most of them probably quickly passed out from depressurization and G-force, although three of the personal air canisters (meant for when there was a need for oxygen) had been manually triggered, meaning a few of the crew did live long enough to turn them on... and it's clear that Smith (the pilot) unlocked/moved some controls manually in an attempt to recover control, which was not an option unfortunately. It's just not clear if anyone was conscious at impact, although the amount of air left in the canisters reflects what would be expected. [The show did not talk about this much, I think? I don't remember now, but it is discoverable online; there also a detailed analysis in the Wiki.]

What Reagan did do was appoint a friend to try and minimize fallout on NASA, because he didn't want the space program to fail; and NASA tried to deflect and minimize how much they knew ahead of time. unfortunately for them, some of the engineers leaked documents and information and were even willing to go on the record despite potentially losing their jobs, so that the truth about the O-rings would be exposed.

I think what I enjoyed most was all the personal interviews with people, and all the historical film footage of the crew, esp McAuliffe. Yes, I was 17 at the time, but I really hadn't paid much attention. So this was like picking up all the stuff I should have observed if I had been paying attention. I wasn't even really thinking about the alternate, but she was featured in a lot of interviews/footage -- Barbara Morgan -- because she knew Christa well from their time together and the crew as well, and she had missed the tragedy by being the alternate. She ended up going into space on the Endeavor 21 years later. There was also footage of the other woman on the Challenger flight, Judy Resnik, who I thought was really cool as one science-y woman to another. She was an engineer who had been trained to be an astronaut for the shuttle series; unlike McAuliffe who was obviously a teacher and had the social inflections, melodious voice, etc, that you would expect in a teacher, Judy was more the flat monotone science-heavy voice in how she talked and what she focused on. I thought she was so cool. But it was really interesting to see the surviving widows now, 30+ years after, and see how resilient THEY have been and how they worked through potential bitterness and loss themselves. Some of the engineers also still feel guilt over having not stopped the launch even if the decision was taken from them.

I think what I despise most was the lead manager who made the decision to go up, and he is now a very old man, but still saying he would have made the same decision today with the same information, and basically writing it off as "lives lost in the process of exploration." IOW, expendable resources. He actually is quoted at length and willingly, so it's not like the clips were twisted.

This was not a case where a "total accident" occurred and it's just part of the cost of doing business because there was a risk that could not have been mitigated. No, this is a case where the problem had been documented for a few years, the engineers had purposefully created paper trails, the engineers refused to okay the launch, and the managers wrote them off and insisted on launching anyway. And then what the engineers knew all along was going to happen DID happen. I have nothing but contempt for this man. They cut corners because they had gotten away with cutting them many times in the past, against the engineering advice, and it finally blew up in their faces.
 
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^ That’s the movie starring William Hurt, right? An interesting watch. Especially when some powerful people kept telling the guy to basically fudge his report and call it a day. That guy had integrity.

I watched that after watching a very entertaining lecture by a British engineer (he took the material very seriously but he was very personable and had a great sense of humor) who’s name eludes me at the moment. The story goes well beyond O rings considering the original design of the shuttle rocket boosters called for a solid structure that wasn’t split into separate sections that would have required O rings in the first place. The design was scrapped in favor of the sectional one because someone in the NASA hierarchy had friends in the corporation that manufactured that design. I’m a little foggy on the details because I watched the presentation in 2013. Anyway I wish I could remember the engineer so I could repost it here. The whole issue could have been avoided if favoritism hadn’t dictated the launcher’s design.

I was in science class at the time of the explosion and my teacher had actually gotten pretty far in the selection process to go on that mission. He was obviously quite distraught that day. I think it was our generation’s equivalent of the assassination of JFK in some ways. The kind of moment where you remember where you were and what you were doing.

Also Chernobyl occurred only a few months later.
 
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Just finished watching this. I seen quite a few of his episodes dealing with the subject. I find his take to be genuine. No hype or gimmicks, just a sense of curiosity and the willingness to investigate for himself. Just like Les said in the episode, I’m not really a believer and I’m not really a skeptic. In any case the legends are interesting.
 

Totenkindly

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^ That’s the movie starring William Hurt, right? An interesting watch. Especially when some powerful people kept telling the guy to basically fudge his report and call it a day. That guy had integrity.

No, it is a 3-4 hour documentary of the event, there are no actors. It's all the actual people. I thought that was pretty clear from my description of the program. It is all footage and interviews.

I watched that after watching a very entertaining lecture by a British engineer (he took the material very seriously but he was very personable and had a great sense of humor) who’s name eludes me at the moment. The story goes well beyond O rings considering the original design of the shuttle rocket boosters called for a solid structure that wasn’t split into separate sections that would have required O rings in the first place. The design was scrapped in favor of the sectional one because someone in the NASA hierarchy had friends in the corporation that manufactured that design. I’m a little foggy on the details because I watched the presentation in 2013. Anyway I wish I could remember the engineer so I could repost it here. The whole issue could have been avoided if favoritism hadn’t dictated the launcher’s design.

Interesting. It's funny how often intercompany politics plays a role in what should be a technical decision.

The o-ring was bad for a few reasons -- one was that it was clear the backup ring (O-ring #2) was being relied upon for a Criticality 1 "part" -- which isn't permissible. Another is that the O-ring already wasn't working as designed -- basically they found the metal would buckle at ignition, leaving a gap, but the O-ring #1 was "moving" with the metal and plugging the hole even though it originally had been designed to not do that. So instead of redesigning everything and getting it to work as planned originally, they just built the weird behavior into the design.

I was in science class at the time of the explosion and my teacher had actually gotten pretty far in the selection process to go on that mission. He was obviously quite distraught that day. I think it was our generation’s equivalent of the assassination of JFK in some ways. The kind of moment where you remember where you were and what you were doing.

I would consider it similar, because it was (1) totally unexpected on the public level and (2) caught on film and (3) catastrophic in nature. So it's shocking. Reagan's near assassination still reverberates a bit but he didn't die and he was early in his term I think. Kennedy is interesting but I wasn't alive then, let alone old enough to know who Kennedy was and be watching the TV. Then of course you get to 9/11, which had the same three aspects except it eclipsed it all by sheer quantity of devastation.
 
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No, it is a 3-4 hour documentary of the event, there are no actors. It's all the actual people. I thought that was pretty clear from my description of the program. It is all footage and interviews.



Interesting. It's funny how often intercompany politics plays a role in what should be a technical decision.

The o-ring was bad for a few reasons -- one was that it was clear the backup ring (O-ring #2) was being relied upon for a Criticality 1 "part" -- which isn't permissible. Another is that the O-ring already wasn't working as designed -- basically they found the metal would buckle at ignition, leaving a gap, but the O-ring #1 was "moving" with the metal and plugging the hole even though it originally had been designed to not do that. So instead of redesigning everything and getting it to work as planned originally, they just built the weird behavior into the design.



I would consider it similar, because it was (1) totally unexpected on the public level and (2) caught on film and (3) catastrophic in nature. So it's shocking. Reagan's near assassination still reverberates a bit but he didn't die and he was early in his term I think. Kennedy is interesting but I wasn't alive then, let alone old enough to know who Kennedy was and be watching the TV. Then of course you get to 9/11, which had the same three aspects except it eclipsed it all by sheer quantity of devastation.

I skimmed the post and missed that. That happens in my brain. ADD or whatever they’re referring to it as these days is a pain in the ass. My eyes and brain apparently decided to pluck key words out of the information and then I remembered the movie and the lecture I had watched.

I remember Reagan distinctly because I had been sent home sick as a dog that day.
 

Peter Deadpan

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The show Ratched is the 20-year backstory of Nurse Ratched from the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Also, the term "McMurphy" used in the show Maniac to describe patients whose consciousness is absorbed into the computer simulation, killing them in their physical form is a reference to McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I didn't realize any of this until I make the connections last night.

I have a serious hardcore nerd boner about all of this right now.
 

Tellenbach

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Watched episode 5 of the new Amazing Stories. So far, every episode has been good, but not great and certainly not magical. I hope that at least one episode is special - something that I'd want to revisit multiple times over the years, but that hasn't happened.
 

chickpea

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cwNCElpuUDJvJ251O61pHP4tdUoHUTn1MS50Kb81ZJ0q9uWgpFTVvEuKUe10IKxfQo2ZoWaKLl9oRv9suDvfgJpUbRMEOlHv6nwaSQQ1lWXE

both perfect and amazing
 

Tilt

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Boston Legal... it would never been produced in the current political climate.
 

Tellenbach

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Dungeons and Dragons: Requiem.

This is a fan made episode of the 80s cartoon series. There was a script of the final episode but it was never made ... until now. It's pretty good and there are a couple twists.
 
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Dungeons and Dragons: Requiem.

This is a fan made episode of the 80s cartoon series. There was a script of the final episode but it was never made ... until now. It's pretty good and there are a couple twists.

I rewatched the entire series a few years back (and was a big fan as a kid when it originally aired) and also saw Requiem. Revisiting the cartoon made me realize how it actually had a level of character development and some moral dilemmas during it’s run. Eric especially had a true character arc going from spoiled rich kid coward to a real leader in the group by the series end.

I especially enjoyed revisiting the episode where the party decided they’d try to kill Venger by ambushing him with Tiamat (The Dragon’s Graveyard). A dark but pragmatic decision to be presented on a Saturday morning cartoon.
 

Tellenbach

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Population: 1 said:
I rewatched the entire series a few years back (and was a big fan as a kid when it originally aired) and also saw Requiem.

 
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