Game of Thrones!

[hacbad macbar]

i dont know why people make 'much ado about nothing' considering that slugfest

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Are we watching the same show/reading the same books?

The Lannisters have no interest in 'keeping the blood clean'; Voldemort and the Targaryens do. Cersei cares, first and foremost, about power and prestige, about getting her own will, and (in the beginning) about Jamie. She is selfish and vain. Her only redeeming quality, as Tyrion rightly notes, is her love for her children, though they are important to her simply because they are hers.

If they don't have any interest in keeping the blood clean, then why are they the incest family? Why Cersei couldn't have Baratheon's children, but instead have only kids of her brother's? Why is every Lennister an incest child? Why do they hate the idea, that their descendants would be tarnished by the blood of other family?

I think what you see as selfishness in Cersei I see as independence.

 

[Hive]

If they don't have any interest in keeping the blood clean, then why are they the incest family? Why Cersei couldn't have Baratheon's children, but instead have only kids of her brother's? Why is every Lennister an incest child? Why do they hate the idea, that their descendants would be tarnished by the blood of other family?

Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion and Tywin aren't born out of incest, only Cersei's children are, and that's because she only ever loved her brother. Targaryens are the ones who practice incest to keep the blood clean.

EDIT: Ah well, Tywin married his cousin, so I guess his children are technically incestuous products. But marrying a cousin isn't anything out of the ordinary in Westeros, and the Lannisters are protective of of their family name and honor, not their blood. Tywin marries Cersei off to Robert Baratheon, and tries to find another suitor for her after Robert's death, as well as forced Tyrion to make Sansa his wife. Tywin also intended for Jaime to marry Lysa Tully until Cersei persuaded Jaime to join the Kingsguard. It's all political.

 

[Hive]

... which of course leads to, does this apply only to other humans? Why isn't anyone complaining about the wolves? Or is it basically that the wolves are complicit/agreeing in some way.

All of the Starks have a kind of spiritual bond with their direwolves, which is why they have wolf dreams, and also why Grey Wind tries to warn Robb at the Red Wedding when he senses the impending danger.

It's like with his direwolf, Bran has the key to enter. With Hodor, or any other creature he doesn't share a bond with, he has to break the lock.

 

[Totenkindly]

"So from what you've read or heard, is Bran acting a bit cruelly or sadistically to sweet Hodor (HODOR!!) like a kid plucking wings off a butterfly?"

Twas a question.

Sadism had nothing to do with it, from the paragraph I saw. But I haven't read the books, so how would I know what else is in there? I have no idea how Bran is represented personality-wise in the books. "Nice" people usually don't act sadistically... but it doesn't mean they sometimes don't do bad things out of good intentions/ignorance.

All of the Starks have a kind of spiritual bond with their direwolves, which is why they have wolf dreams, and also why Grey Wind tries to warn Robb at the Red Wedding when he senses the impending danger.

It's like with his direwolf, Bran has the key to enter. With Hodor, or any other creature he doesn't share a bond with, he has to break the lock.

Thanks, that last bit is very helpful and shows the distinction.

 

[Nicodemus]

It's like with his direwolf, Bran has the key to enter. With Hodor, or any other creature he doesn't share a bond with, he has to break the lock.

Also, animal locks are generally much easier to break than human locks. There is a moral element to it: Since animals are 'lesser' creatures, less self-aware, it is not as wrong to push their minds aside as it is to bereave another human of his body. The greatest pain in having been robbed stems from the idea of violation and loss, not from actually missing what is gone.

To weigh in on that too: Bran is not cruel. So far, he has possessed Hodor only when it was necessary for the survival of the group. On the other hand, however, he does warg a lot and is somewhat in danger of losing himself in his direworlf because he longs to be mobile again. Remember, before the fall, he was a very active kid, climbing all over the buildings in Winterfell.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, I did see him as going into Summer being primarily motivated (along with any bond with the wolf) as also being the only time he can be "free" anymore and not trapped in his damaged body.

 

[lecky]

Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion and Tywin aren't born out of incest, only Cersei's children are, and that's because she only ever loved her brother. Targaryens are the ones who practice incest to keep the blood clean.

EDIT: Ah well, Tywin married his cousin, so I guess his children are technically incestuous products. But marrying a cousin isn't anything out of the ordinary in Westeros, and the Lannisters are protective of of their family name and honor, not their blood. Tywin marries Cersei off to Robert Baratheon, and tries to find another suitor for her after Robert's death. He also intended to marry Jaime off to Lysa Tully before Cersei convinced Jaime to join the Kingsguard, as well as forced Tyrion to take Sansa for a wife.

Ha! I can't imagine Jaime and Lysa together, but I'd like to see how he'd handle that crazy mess.

 

[Totenkindly]

Ha! I can't imagine Jaime and Lysa together, but I'd like to see how he'd handle that crazy mess.

Ugggh.... now I want to scrub out my brain with a toilet brush to get rid of that picture.
But it won't go away. Arrrrgggg....

To speculate on the answer, there's always the Moon door. Jaime seems to like that sort of thing.
(and poetic justice as well, considering what almost happened to his brother)

 

[kyuuei]

... they are important to her simply because they are hers.

This is what I take home from it too.

I think she sort of takes solace in them being products of the guy she loves, and that they're a big middle finger in the face to the world that won't let her be with her brother and forced her to marry Robert at all. She probably didn't have much else to take pride in for long stretches of time too while being married to Robert--on top of probably some basic motherly instincts. She's only ever really civil in the face of children being involved. Besides children, all bets are off.

 

[Totenkindly]

I thought he was saying it was less maternal and more how they are her possession/agency in the world. (i.e., less about Joffrey being king, and more about HER SON being king.)

Parents who treat their kids as extensions of themselves aren't really that paternal or maternal. Paternal and maternal parents take joy in their children's joys, mourn in their losses, and invest in their kids without expecting return; Cersie seems to live through her kids because she hates her life. How much does she actually love THEM vs just love that they are hers? I'm not sure.

 

[Hive]

I thought he was saying it was less maternal and more how they are her possession/agency in the world. (i.e., less about Joffrey being king, and more about HER SON being king.)

Parents who treat their kids as extensions of themselves aren't really that paternal or maternal. Paternal and maternal parents take joy in their children's joys, mourn in their losses, and invest in their kids without expecting return; Cersie seems to live through her kids because she hates her life. How much does she actually love THEM vs just love that they are hers? I'm not sure.

I also think she sees them more as extensions of herself more than anything. She's fiercely protective of them when they're threatened, but other than that, what has she actually done to be a good mother? Has she shown kindness and support? Tried to give them a good upbringing? Any kind of attempt at parenting at all? Hardly. She's actually pretty abusive and just expects obedience from them, like she does with everyone despite having done nothing to warrant it. She's just as selfish and egocentric as Jaime once was, only it feels like she is beyond redemption at this point.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Parents who treat their kids as extensions of themselves aren't really that paternal or maternal. Paternal and maternal parents take joy in their children's joys, mourn in their losses, and invest in their kids without expecting return; Cersie seems to live through her kids because she hates her life. How much does she actually love THEM vs just love that they are hers? I'm not sure.

I think all parents that take the time to actually raise their kids imprint their own desires and wishes on them. Probably the best parenting is letting your kids be who they really are, and guiding them towards that, but you're still going to influence them with your values and beliefs. When I think of "maternal" I think of unconditional love, among other things, and she's definitely shown that with Joeffry, that little shit. She even admits what a little monster he is. She loves him, defends, and protects him anyway.

This is what I take home from it too.

I think she sort of takes solace in them being products of the guy she loves, and that they're a big middle finger in the face to the world that won't let her be with her brother and forced her to marry Robert at all. She probably didn't have much else to take pride in for long stretches of time too while being married to Robert--on top of probably some basic motherly instincts. She's only ever really civil in the face of children being involved. Besides children, all bets are off.

All that and extra bonus points for the bold

 

[Ivy]

To speculate on the answer, there's always the Moon door. Jaime seems to like that sort of thing.
(and poetic justice as well, considering what almost happened to his brother)

I see what you did there! I think!

 

[Ivy]

Apologies if this has been posted before:

http://www.danbarham.com/dinklage/

 

[johnnyyukon]

Apologies if this has been posted before:

http://www.danbarham.com/dinklage/

LOL

 

[Totenkindly]

A truly dizzying display of axemanship!

 

[Hive]

Apologies if this has been posted before:

http://www.danbarham.com/dinklage/

 

[Anew Leaf]

I thought he was saying it was less maternal and more how they are her possession/agency in the world. (i.e., less about Joffrey being king, and more about HER SON being king.)

Parents who treat their kids as extensions of themselves aren't really that paternal or maternal. Paternal and maternal parents take joy in their children's joys, mourn in their losses, and invest in their kids without expecting return; Cersie seems to live through her kids because she hates her life. How much does she actually love THEM vs just love that they are hers? I'm not sure.

I have thought that perhaps what she loves is the power that her kids provide her, and the fact that they are a bargaining chip she will throw at anyone.

I really did not like how they portrayed the church scene between C and J recently. I think I know what they are going for, but just because the end results may be the same, the road taken matters very much.

 

[Totenkindly]

Apologies if this has been posted before:

http://www.danbarham.com/dinklage/

The thing keeps playing over and over and my cat is just looking at me on the bed like "Uh, wtf is THAT?"