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Thread: Game of Thrones!

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Nah, Varys does not have the cred to be King (he's not even a Lord. What a loser! and a weinerless one at that. Winners have weiners). My take on it was that he wanted Prince Oberyn to take over. I'm fine with this, he's very likeable, and an ENTP ta boot!
    Interesting.

    So he was rather making a not-so-veiled pitch to Oberyn and testing his response?

    The actor playing Oberyn reminds me of Antonio Banderas in some ways.

    That reminded me of the archetypal scene in a movie where a man or boy must threaten his dog to run away into the wild for whatever reason, like in White Fang, when Jack scares off his bestest wolf buddy by yelling "GO!" and threatening him with a stick, because he can't take Fang back to San Francisco. Pretty sad, and not that much different than the way Tyrion treated Shae. Maybe he could have handled it another way, but she was pretty fucking stubborn.
    She's crafty, yes, but not abstractly smart -- she kind of takes things at face value, including his final rejection of her. A big picture thinker would have stepped back, looked at all the pieces, and conjectured he was probably trying to spare her life, but all she hears is his words and all she sees is his rejection of her.

    It was just very sad. And leaves you wondering where Bronn is, since he had put her on the boat.

    I'd go a little farther than blunt. We've never seen Tyrion so enraged. He's always been so calm, cool, cunning, and witty, even in life threatening situations. But this was brand new, raw and ferocious anger (and rightly so. and very much like a lion, I might add).
    Great point, that last bit.
    ... which leads me into another great big double-fingered FU to Tywin. No matter how much you hate Tyrion, old man (apparently Tywin's 67 years old?), he's as much a Lannister as anyone in the family. How ironic.

    Also, Littlefinger a creeper? Never caught that. When did this happen? Did I miss him eying Sansa or something? I suppose if that's so, I could see it, some twisted projection of Catelyn. He's obviously amoral, but I've never seen or detected sexual depravity.
    Aside from running the kinky brothel. But his fixation on Caitlyn + his interactions with Sansa (body language, tone of voice, etc.) all come across as the creepy ex-non-boyfriend of your mother who could never get her in the sack in high school and is now hanging around her younger daughters for.... whatever reason. It's not like Petyr hasn't sunk to some pretty low levels already.

    And my thoughts on Sansa: She's tall!
    Too bad she's not Arya, or she'd kick his ass.

    Anyway, during the trial, we now see why Olenna



    I read a little about the writing of the episode, and the writer was told to focus on accusations based on things Tyrion actually said and did throughout the series so far. It was great advice. yes, there was some wholesale lying going on as well, at the end, but in general pretty much everything that got dragged out was stuff Tyrion said, just taken out of context and misrepresented... often in the best interests of the kingdom. It made it hurt even worse.

    Now, as far as foreshadowing:



    End result of all this, if everyone lives:

    Jaime and Tyrion are still a family.
    Cersei is all alone, because she turned on family.
    Tywin is left holding the pieces, trying to salvage something.

    And Tommen lays in bed holding Ser Pounce dreaming sweet dreams of Margaery.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It was just very sad. And leaves you wondering where Bronn is, since he had put her on the boat.
    Good point. She doesn't strike me as someone that could take him out, unless she seduced him or something. And if she didn't, where the hell is he? I'm not ready for Bronn to go, I love that sleazeball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If he asks Jaime to champion him (which I'm unsure on, since he's Guard Captain, although Jaime will likely quit the Guard... which he was going to do anyway... to defend Tyrion), then Tywin is fucked. The Lannisters are fucked. Tywin will have to pick someone who Jaime will beat... and Tyrion will go free. Because if Jaime dies, then Tyrion dies, and there are no more male Lannisters. Tywin loses everything.
    This didn't even cross my mind. Great thinking, detective.

    Also Varys, he is such a trip. He just chooses the winning side, whoever it is, betraying anyone if it suits him, like he's changing socks. And he's so transparent about it, it's almost hard to dislike him. That's who he is and he wouldn't deny it for a second. He's a master at the Game of Thrones, a weinerless winner.
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  3. #813
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    Found this:

    Sometimes it's nice when the nerds behind the nerdy thing you're nerdy about are nerdy about other things you're nerdy about. Cue Game of Thrones' linguist David Peterson. He revealed an Easter egg from the third episode of this season, from the scene in which Daario Naharis goes up against the champion of Meereen. The champion shouts something at Daenerys, but Missandei is not translating what he's saying. "He's actually saying a Low Valyrian translation of the French guy's insults in Monty Python and the Holy Grail," Peterson explained. It was apparently the idea of series co-creator D. B. Weiss. Because pissing in the sand in front of Daenerys is not enough, a real bad guy also farts in her general direction.
    -------------

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Good point. She doesn't strike me as someone that could take him out, unless she seduced him or something. And if she didn't, where the hell is he? I'm not ready for Bronn to go, I love that sleazeball.
    He's amusing. And he did train Jaime. But where has he been since??

    This didn't even cross my mind. Great thinking, detective.
    Well, it depends on what Tywin wants. But basically it breaks down to a few things:

    1. I found this note about "judgment by combat" online this morning, which seems to validate my thinking:

    But even if not, I believe the "new" Jaime would quit his position in order to champion his brother. He was willing to do so before, and he asked Tyrion to trust him; Jaime won't turn back, even if he thinks he'll lose and it'll costs him his life. He will give his all to keep him and his brother alive.

    2. The deal Tywin and Jaime made is now, seemingly, null and void. Hence, Jaime is no longer obligated to give Tywin what he wanted from him. Yeah, Tywin is basically screwed either way. I find that hilarious that he has Tyrion in chains and STILL Tyrion has bested him whether he lives or dies.

    3. Jaime and Tyrion have much in common. Jaime cut down his former lord to save King's Landing from the madman, and he was rewarded by being treated as a joke and harrangued by the insult "Kingslayer." Tyrion planned the defense of King's Landing when no one else did, and he charged into battle (likely death for a dwarf) when Joffrey ran back to his mother and even had one of his guards try to assassinate him; but he still is called "the Imp," treated like a grotesque joke, and is now being hung out to dry to appease public sentiment and family politics despite his innocence. Are they really that different?

    They truly are brothers.

    And what they share is far deeper and meaningful than whatever he and Cersei shared. Maybe that whole mess back in Episode 3 was a final encounter that allowed Jaime to realize he just didn't want that relationship anymore. That that is not who he is. He's already very different from the guy we saw in S1E1.


    Also Varys, he is such a trip. He just chooses the winning side, whoever it is, betraying anyone if it suits him, like he's changing socks. And he's so transparent about it, it's almost hard to dislike him. That's who he is and he wouldn't deny it for a second. He's a master at the Game of Thrones, a weinerless winner.
    I'm confused on Varys. If you watch first season, he tells Ned that actually he (Varys) is the only one trying to preserve the REALM, and I believe that. He's not just playing for power and to benefit himself; he really does have a motivation the good of the realm, as it is in his mind. He's not Littlefinger. But what exactly IS in the best interests of the realm? Well, that could change depending on the politics.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    They truly are brothers.
    All good points.

    Yeah, I also feel for Jaimie, but it took a while, as he simply never seemed to care that he was called kingslayer. I think it's only now that he's been tossed aside as a semi-cripple (another "much like Tyrion"). Where's the fucking love in this wretched family??

    And yeah, that move was a brilliant play on Tyrion's part. I know it's not guaranteed, but I'd be hard pressed to think otherwise. I mentioned he was pure white hot anger, but he was still being cunning, as usual. And it hasn't been mentioned, but he's also got Cersei by the balls, yet again. I know she doesn't have lover feelings for Jaimie, but I'm sure with his life on the line, especially by Tyrion's machinations, this will only infuriate her more. She may just pop a blood vessel out of anger and frustration. She's reached even higher levels of cuntiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm confused on Varys. If you watch first season, he tells Ned that actually he (Varys) is the only one trying to preserve the REALM, and I believe that. He's not just playing for power and to benefit himself; he really does have a motivation the good of the realm, as it is in his mind. He's not Littlefinger. But what exactly IS in the best interests of the realm? Well, that could change depending on the politics.
    Another good point. Ur gud at pointz. I had forgotten that. I wonder why he's so concerned with the realm and ideals? Maybe it was explained, but I don't recall. I do think he'll self preserve at all costs, but maybe it so he can preserve the realm, or guide it towards his ideals. I wonder if he would give his life, if it meant the good of the realm.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    All good points. Yeah, I also feel for Jaimie, but it took a while, as he simply never seemed to care that he was called kingslayer. I think it's only now that he's been tossed aside as a semi-cripple (another "much like Tyrion"). Where's the fucking love in this wretched family??
    Actually, I think it ate at him a long time. Why do you think he has been paying the wise-cracking, "don't care about anything" roguish warrior for so long? The issues between he and his father have gone back a LONG long time and that's part of it... but I think a lot of the bravado was a show to pretend that the insults did not matter. It's been going on, what, 17-20 years now? ANd note how he brought up that he saved his own father's life when he took that insult on his shoulders, and his dad brushed that off as inconsequential.

    While I had my intuition about this just from the social face Jaime wears, it really comes out in that episode when he tells Brienne everything, and then when she calls him Kingslayer again, he says, "I'm just Jaime. Jaime." I don't think she ever calls him Kingslayer after that. Brienne is a noble person, but even she was taken in by his seeming indifference and thought he was a flake; once she recognizes the emotional wound and that he actually consciously sacrificed a lot of his reputation for the good of the realm, she never hurts him there again and in fact tries to help heal him by essentially calling him (through the gift of his sword) Oathkeeper. [i.e., she gives him a "new name."]

    And yeah, that move was a brilliant play on Tyrion's part. I know it's not guaranteed, but I'd be hard pressed to think otherwise. I mentioned he was pure white hot anger, but he was still being cunning, as usual. And it hasn't been mentioned, but he's also got Cersei by the balls, yet again. I know she doesn't have lover feelings for Jaimie, but I'm sure with his life on the line, especially by Tyrion's machinations, this will only infuriate her more. She may just pop a blood vessel out of anger and frustration. She's reached even higher levels of cuntiness.
    I'm just scared to see what she might try now. I mean, she didn't want Jaime anymore it seemed, but I think she still considers him "hers" -- and now Tyrion has Jaime. She'll be furious and not wanting to see Tyrion "win."

    Another good point. Ur gud at pointz.
    INTP, ya know. I'm always building a broad big picture in my head of how the points most sensibly relate.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    INTP, ya know. I'm always building a broad big picture in my head of how the points most sensibly relate.
    On top of being female and picking up on the more subtle things like Brienne noticing "Jaimie, just Jaimie." Went over my head.

    I'm not sure it's a sexual attraction or not, even though Jaimie more or less admitted he loved her, but yeah, Brienne seems to be the first one to see his soul and not look away.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, I think it ate at him a long time. Why do you think he has been paying the wise-cracking, "don't care about anything" roguish warrior for so long? The issues between he and his father have gone back a LONG long time and that's part of it... but I think a lot of the bravado was a show to pretend that the insults did not matter. It's been going on, what, 17-20 years now? ANd note how he brought up that he saved his own father's life when he took that insult on his shoulders, and his dad brushed that off as inconsequential.

    While I had my intuition about this just from the social face Jaime wears, it really comes out in that episode when he tells Brienne everything, and then when she calls him Kingslayer again, he says, "I'm just Jaime. Jaime." I don't think she ever calls him Kingslayer after that. Brienne is a noble person, but even she was taken in by his seeming indifference and thought he was a flake; once she recognizes the emotional wound and that he actually consciously sacrificed a lot of his reputation for the good of the realm, she never hurts him there again and in fact tries to help heal him by essentially calling him (through the gift of his sword) Oathkeeper. [i.e., she gives him a "new name."]



    I'm just scared to see what she might try now. I mean, she didn't want Jaime anymore it seemed, but I think she still considers him "hers" -- and now Tyrion has Jaime. She'll be furious and not wanting to see Tyrion "win."



    INTP, ya know. I'm always building a broad big picture in my head of how the points most sensibly relate.
    I like your Jaimie analysis as he has become one of my favorite characters in the series and I think it is pretty spot on. Even his first horrific act (that we see) of him pushing Bran out of the window he comments on, "The things I do for love."

    The initial impressions you get of him are primarily told through Ned's POV in the book as he reflects back on the war. You see through Ned's eyes as he enters the throne room and finds the Mad King dead and Jaimie sitting on the throne, and he jumps to a conclusion that makes sense to him. Ironically enough, seeing Jaimie through as far as I have, I think he is one of the few people who really does NOT want the Throne or the power that comes with it. He comes off on the surface extremely simple/flaky, but then you peel through his real layers of complexity and you find again a simple man but one that is real.

    I think he's been given one of the best GRRM style gray character arcs in the series by far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Also Varys, he is such a trip. He just chooses the winning side, whoever it is, betraying anyone if it suits him, like he's changing socks. And he's so transparent about it, it's almost hard to dislike him. That's who he is and he wouldn't deny it for a second. He's a master at the Game of Thrones, a weinerless winner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm confused on Varys. If you watch first season, he tells Ned that actually he (Varys) is the only one trying to preserve the REALM, and I believe that. He's not just playing for power and to benefit himself; he really does have a motivation the good of the realm, as it is in his mind. He's not Littlefinger. But what exactly IS in the best interests of the realm? Well, that could change depending on the politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Another good point. Ur gud at pointz. I had forgotten that. I wonder why he's so concerned with the realm and ideals? Maybe it was explained, but I don't recall. I do think he'll self preserve at all costs, but maybe it so he can preserve the realm, or guide it towards his ideals. I wonder if he would give his life, if it meant the good of the realm.
    Varys is my favorite character in the books, and not because he is obvious about his plans. He understands the game better than most, perhaps better than anyone else. He cannot win it himself and, as we heard on Sunday, he has no interest to. So, let me just say this much: He does not stay at court just to make money.

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    I feel like Peter Dinklage deeply drew from his own feelings about being judged as a minority when he acted in the court scene.

    And @Nicodemus, you would like Varys. Frankly, I also find it hard not to like him. He's extremely tempered, consistent, competent and respectable. I respect him because he can't be bought, not unlike the Hound. In most ways, they are worlds apart, though.

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